Will tariffs make America great?

dirtywick said:
imo there’s no question that manufacturing jobs in production aren’t highly desired. almost universally they pay slightly better than retail work, for longer and probably worse hours, with less flexibility in worse conditions. if you’re working through a temp agency it’s even worse. many people decide it’s not worth the small pay increase, and imo there’s legitimacy to that.
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I think a lot of the people pining for manufacturing jobs are misremembering why they were so good back in the day. It's because they were union jobs and the unions fought hard for their members' rights.

But then again that reality would go against reich wing ideology of "rich people good, unions evil".
 
dirtywick said:
imo there’s no question that manufacturing jobs in production aren’t highly desired. almost universally they pay slightly better than retail work, for longer and probably worse hours, with less flexibility in worse conditions. if you’re working through a temp agency it’s even worse. many people decide it’s not worth the small pay increase, and imo there’s legitimacy to that.
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You have to remember that Trump is decades behind, there used to be lots of skilled manufacturing jobs that were well paid, secure, desirable, respected* and much better than retail or service jobs that were lost to a combination of outsourcing and automation during the deindustrialization of the late 80s and 90s. Those jobs aren't coming back in significant numbers, if at all, automation is cheaper, faster and more accurate, but unskilled work? Well, if the combination of wages & training is cheaper than making a machine...

*ETA: And as Gulliver Foyle rightly points out, unionised.
 
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P.J. Denyer said:
You have to remember that Trump is decades behind, there used to be lots of skilled manufacturing jobs that were well paid, secure, desirable, respected* and much better than retail or service jobs that were lost to a combination of outsourcing and automation during the deindustrialization of the late 80s and 90s. Those jobs aren't coming back in significant numbers, if at all, automation is cheaper, faster and more accurate, but unskilled work? Well, if the combination of wages & training is cheaper than making a machine...

*ETA: And as Gulliver Foyle rightly points out, unionised.
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even at that, the machinery to automate needs to be developed. the us already manufactures a significant amount of stuff in certain industries, it's how we remain competitive at american pay scales (which, even in an automated environment with well understood processes, is slightly above retail). new industries is new processes, new processes we don't understand and don't have the machinery for. it will need to be designed and built.

the skilled jobs pay well, but there's still many more jobs in unskilled work in automated plants and it's not going anywhere. forklift drivers and logistics, people need to operate the robots and load in raw materials to be processed and perform quality checks throughout the process still make up a significant amount of the workforce in a modern factory.

i don't want to get into the union stuff too much other than to say they've contributed to their own bad reputations in their own ways.
 
dirtywick said:
even at that, the machinery to automate needs to be developed. the us already manufactures a significant amount of stuff in certain industries, it's how we remain competitive at american pay scales (which, even in an automated environment with well understood processes, is slightly above retail). new industries is new processes, new processes we don't understand and don't have the machinery for. it will need to be designed and built.

the skilled jobs pay well, but there's still many more jobs in unskilled work in automated plants and it's not going anywhere. forklift drivers and logistics, people need to operate the robots and load in raw materials to be processed and perform quality checks throughout the process still make up a significant amount of the workforce in a modern factory.

i don't want to get into the union stuff too much other than to say they've contributed to their own bad reputations in their own ways.
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About 95% of unions' bad reputations is either down to oligarch propaganda or employer captured unions (which are often worse than no union and are, in reality, the descendants of the German Labour Front). Americans have a long history of being unable to recognise what is good for them.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
About 95% of unions' bad reputations is either down to oligarch propaganda or employer captured unions (which are often worse than no union and are, in reality, the descendants of the German Labour Front). Americans have a long history of being unable to recognise what is good for them.
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well i don’t think that’s true. they’re political organizations, and come with all that comes with being a political organization
 
theprestige said:
TDS Sufferers: Tariffs mean Trump is insane!

Some MAGAts: It's a negotiation tactic.

Trump: Okay, okay let's negotiate.

TDS Sufferers: Trump is a coward!
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Trump is insane. His "handling" of tariffs is just one manifestation among many.

Trump is also a coward. Bone spurs are just one manifestation among many.

Trump is also deranged. Recognizing that his group of symptoms collectively indicate or characterize his disease, psychological disorder, or other abnormal condition constitute a syndrome is rational thinking, a process that escapes many Trump supporters.
 
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