Will tariffs make America great?

But of course the entire tariff scheme will have changed a dozen times over before a single Indian iPhone is made. I wonder what promises of stability Apple and India got, and whether they're worth the paper they aren't written on.
Stability is the sinew of modern manufacturing. I've spent the last three years on a new product line, two of it figuring out the manufacturing and validation processes. These are relatively simple items. But they're mission-critical in a life-safe application, so we have to be able to assure reliability by means of assurance in our processes. That requires being able to predict global supply lines and markets a number of years out. Previously we could do that. Now we can't. As a result, we have no idea how we're going to build these things according to a predictable cost and schedule. The President is yanking levers on a daily or weekly basis according to no discernible plan, the results of which require honest American businesses to retool processes that require literally months and years to validate.
 
That's a clever and cheap solution. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me because under our engineering rules that would count as a "reclaimed" part, even if the assembly we're taking it from has never been used. It may be functionally indistinguishable from a brand-new part, but for some of our critical applications it would be disqualified under our rules.

The model of manufacturing that Pres. Trump and others are pushing is a quaint 1970s model that completely ignores the reality of a global infrastructure and global trade. What they're doing has zero chance of bringing manufacturing back to the United States, or of bootstrapping any sort of isolation-friendly industry. It's Trump doing his typical thing of plundering an economy for personal gain and leaving everyone else holding the bag. Only this time it's the world's formerly most prosperous and reliable national economy, not one of the many companies he bankrupted with his ineptitude and bullying.
Looking at his tastes in all things, clothing, musicals, food, economic policies, they seem to have been fixed at some point in the late 70s or early 80s and are impervious to change.

He wants the US to go back to that period because he thinks those were his glory days.
 
He wants the US to go back to that period because he thinks those were his glory days.
Those were the glory days for much of the American economy. And they were Donald Trump's glory days because that's before everyone discovered what a scoundrel he was and quit doing business with him. That's when he had to pivot to selling his "brand" and playing the character of a successful businessman on television.

What made it the glory days were circumstances like in-state college tuition being $500 a semester that meant you could pay for a college degree with a part-time job, and a large percentage of the population earning enough to buy a house. Economies are strongest when lots of people have disposable income to fill different conduits of commerce. As I said earlier and possibly in another thread, economies are lots and lots of toothbrushes, lawn mowers, and teachers, not a very few solid gold super yachts. Billionaires drive an economy only when they spread their billions around. An economy that feeds the insatiable greed of only a very few ends up collapsing after a short time. And often the only surviving industry is guillotines.

Trump wants to return to the glory days of the 1890s when a poorly-educated and poorly-paid population served largely untaxed and unregulated businesses and sustained an aristocracy of wealth and privilege. Sick or injured on the job? Too bad; labor is fungible and we'll just hire someone else to take your place. Having your face eaten by the leopards was just an ordinary Tuesday. Trump wants the glory days of the robber barons.

We can't return to the 1890s or the 1980s. The world is smaller. People are more connected. Moving goods is cheaper. Services are more important. America was the largest and most prosperous national economy a year ago, but somehow the Trumpistas have been convinced that the rest of the world has been systematically ripping us off for decades.

Stability is pretty important to almost everything done in or by a civilization! The only thing I can think of that benefits from instability is creative arts, and my friend Kevin.
We tolerate a certain amount of instability because it is the natural consequence of innovation. The tractor disrupted the draft-animal infrastructure for farming and made it unstable until everyone normalized to it. And we often grease the wheels of innovation by taxing the horseshoes disproportionately. This is meant to shorten the period of instability, because the more people who buy into innovation, the faster it becomes the new stable status quo. Incentives for electric vehicles, for example, drive adoption. This is not what Trumps tariffs are meant to accomplish. As near as I can tell, none of the motivations put forward match the evidence. It's not going to return America to a manufacturing infrastructure. It's not going to fill the treasury to replace the tax cuts to the wealthy. It's not even leverage for bargaining, because other countries can see that Trump isn't serious about the tariffs and can see how easily Trump can be manipulated. Trump is trying to make oxen great again by destroying all the tractors.
 
Those were the glory days for much of the American economy. And they were Donald Trump's glory days because that's before everyone discovered what a scoundrel he was and quit doing business with him. That's when he had to pivot to selling his "brand" and playing the character of a successful businessman on television.

What made it the glory days were circumstances like in-state college tuition being $500 a semester that meant you could pay for a college degree with a part-time job, and a large percentage of the population earning enough to buy a house. Economies are strongest when lots of people have disposable income to fill different conduits of commerce. As I said earlier and possibly in another thread, economies are lots and lots of toothbrushes, lawn mowers, and teachers, not a very few solid gold super yachts. Billionaires drive an economy only when they spread their billions around. An economy that feeds the insatiable greed of only a very few ends up collapsing after a short time. And often the only surviving industry is guillotines.

Trump wants to return to the glory days of the 1890s when a poorly-educated and poorly-paid population served largely untaxed and unregulated businesses and sustained an aristocracy of wealth and privilege. Sick or injured on the job? Too bad; labor is fungible and we'll just hire someone else to take your place. Having your face eaten by the leopards was just an ordinary Tuesday. Trump wants the glory days of the robber barons.

We can't return to the 1890s or the 1980s. The world is smaller. People are more connected. Moving goods is cheaper. Services are more important. America was the largest and most prosperous national economy a year ago, but somehow the Trumpistas have been convinced that the rest of the world has been systematically ripping us off for decades.


We tolerate a certain amount of instability because it is the natural consequence of innovation. The tractor disrupted the draft-animal infrastructure for farming and made it unstable until everyone normalized to it. And we often grease the wheels of innovation by taxing the horseshoes disproportionately. This is meant to shorten the period of instability, because the more people who buy into innovation, the faster it becomes the new stable status quo. Incentives for electric vehicles, for example, drive adoption. This is not what Trumps tariffs are meant to accomplish. As near as I can tell, none of the motivations put forward match the evidence. It's not going to return America to a manufacturing infrastructure. It's not going to fill the treasury to replace the tax cuts to the wealthy. It's not even leverage for bargaining, because other countries can see that Trump isn't serious about the tariffs and can see how easily Trump can be manipulated.
Trump is trying to make oxen great again by destroying all the tractors.
While slaughtering the oxen for private parties, promising the people that they can have whatever is left over.
 
Presumably iPhones are currently made in China because that's cheaper than setting up the infrastructure to make them in India. So this will make iPhones more expensive for the US and likely a bit more expensive for everyone else just due to the loss of economy of scale.

Even with the 27% tariff it seems it's cheaper to make them in India rather than the US. But of course the entire tariff scheme will have changed a dozen times over before a single Indian iPhone is made. I wonder what promises of stability Apple and India got, and whether they're worth the paper they aren't written on.
Just reiterate for a short while ago: Apple have been shipping plane-loads of iPhones from China to India and stockpiling them there. Then they announced they are ready to ship product to the USA as usual. So no manufacturing in India either, and the yuge China tariff avoided. No screwdrivers were harmed.
 
Just reiterate for a short while ago: Apple have been shipping plane-loads of iPhones from China to India and stockpiling them there. Then they announced they are ready to ship product to the USA as usual. So no manufacturing in India either, and the yuge China tariff avoided. No screwdrivers were harmed.
Just print the boxes in India and then add the phone, so the package is manufactured in India.
 
Just reiterate for a short while ago: Apple have been shipping plane-loads of iPhones from China to India and stockpiling them there. Then they announced they are ready to ship product to the USA as usual. So no manufacturing in India either, and the yuge China tariff avoided. No screwdrivers were harmed.
Of course the Trump administration will paint China as the tariff avoiding bad guys when of course it's that fine, upstanding, US company Apple.
 
I'd have thought there must be some amount of final assembly for the phones to count as "Indian". Maybe if they take out the last 2 tiny screws and ship them separately.

Like in the UK people used to buy a Lotus 7 replica as a "kit car" rather than a finished car, even though all that was needed was to bolt the front mudguards on (I think that avoided VAT or something).
 
I'd have thought there must be some amount of final assembly for the phones to count as "Indian". Maybe if they take out the last 2 tiny screws and ship them separately.

Like in the UK people used to buy a Lotus 7 replica as a "kit car" rather than a finished car, even though all that was needed was to bolt the front mudguards on (I think that avoided VAT or something).
Nah, Darat has it about right. "Made in India". It's probably part of the reason why the Trump admin has been furiously trying to seal a good deal with Indian PM Modi on trade and presumably tariff exemptions.
 
Always laughed at the Designed in California that Apple put on their phones in larger text than the Made in China.

Is it a law in the USA that country of origin has to be on packaging/product? If it is I can see Trump getting rid of that and saying "look no more made in China in the USA".
 
‘Hostile and political act’: WH blasts Amazon over plan to display tariff costs for consumers (MSNBC on YouTube, April 29, 2025 - 11:15 min.)
White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt blasted Amazon on Tuesday over plans to begin displaying how much tariffs impact the cost of an item.

White House accuses Amazon of 'hostile and political act' on tariffs (CNN on YouTube, April 29, 2025, 28:07 min.)
The Trump administration took aggressive aim at Amazon today, after reports that the company would begin displaying the added cost of President Donald Trump’s tariffs on items. White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt called the move a “hostile and political act.”

Trump 'clearly angry' at Amazon for move to display tariff cost next to products (MSNBC on YouTube, April 29, 2025 - 10:48 min.)
The White House is blasting Amazon over its reported move to display the cost of President Trump's tariffs next to the total price of products on its website. This comes as Trump marks 100 days in office with a rally in Michigan. Our NBC News team Garrett Haake, Christine Romans, Shaquille Brewster and Jonathan Allen join Ana Cabrera to break it all down.
 
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Minor wrist slap for Amazon but they've got their publicity and made their point that their prices are going up and it ain't their fault.
But it may end up hurting Amazon more as some customers might take umbrage at either the original tariff revealing, or at the cowardly reversal. Amazon's managed to irritate both ends of the spectrum at once, just like how Target did with its DEI stuff.
 

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