Why Wasn't Auschwitz Bombed?

[ElMondoHummus]

Jewish Casualities During WWII

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/tldeaths.html

Refutation of many arguments, including the ones used by Walter Sanning (a researcher sourced in MaGZ's link):

"Holocaust Denial: Demographics, Testimonies and Ideologies", John C. Zimmerman.

Also, some info regarding the "emigration" stats listed by Carl Nordling (another researcher sourced in MaGZ's link):

http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi (Start reading at question 15 on that page, then continue onward. This isn't a direct refutation of Nordling, BTW; rather, it's context for Nordling's figures.)

Before anyone starts giving too much credence to revisionist studies trying to recast the numbers killed in the Concentration Camps, let's understand that the bulk of proof for the 6 million dead come from the Nazi's themselves. There's hard documentation too, not only human testimony. As one, small example, see some of the evidence that contributed to the Treblinka numbers:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka/

No, of course there's not some master doc that says "We executed 300 Jews yesterday, 400 today...". But there's other information; transportation documents, for example, enumerating the number transported in. Etc. It has to be put together, like any complex narrative. Regardless, I'd take counts from documentation and witness testimony validated during the Nuremberg trials over any statistical analysis done after the fact by people with a pre-existing interests in historical revisionism, like the two in the link MaGZ provides.

 

[1337m4n]

Jewish Casualities During WWII

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/tldeaths.html

Why are all of the sources anti-Semetic?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Jewish Casualities During WWII

Do you ever click on something either MaGZ or one of the troofers links to and almost immediately wish you hadn't?

I found something truly horrible at that website.

I am so frakking ENRAGED right now... I can barely type this (Ben, don't look).

God, forgive me; the thoughts I'm having right now.

 

[Disenchanted]

None of those people were intentionally killed by the Germans. Most of them were not Jews. The existence of crematoria does not prove or even demonstrate exterminations of anyone.

Rubbish. Millions of people were unintentionally killed?

Were the Einsatzgruppen victims unintentionally killed?

http://history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holocaust-history.org%2Fintro-einsatz%2F

So the existence of the ovens was a boon for the post-war investigators who used them to begin constructing the Holocaust Legend, and frame the Germans for exterminations that never happened.

Considering there were thousands if not millions of Roma murdered during the holocaust, your claim that the Germans were framed is as absurd as any I have seen. Why would the Roma (or any one) go along with framing the Germans?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Post deleted - missed a whole string of subsequent stuff.

 

[funk de fino]

For the bigots

I have recently been in germany and they are building numerous holocaust memorial sites. They have competing exhibitions about the trains and lines that took the prisoners to their deaths. They have exhibitions about the ovens and how they were used and what they were used for. There are exhibitions at most of the relevant sites including the ones that were not death camps.

Why are the germans so ready to admit and apologise for their deeds and to display this all to the rest of the world? They aplogise for their shame yet you display ignorance and cowardice and deny these acts.

Racists and bigots are the lowest of the low

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Berlin2002/JewishMemorial/index.html

https://dongtaiwang.com/dmirror/http/en.epochtimes.com/news/5-7-23/30530.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7208939.stm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,516430,00.html

 

[timhau]

Holocaust deniers. Can't live with them, can't live withou... no, wait. Yes, we definitely could live without them.

 

[Nogbad]

As somebody said, those most likely to deny are actually the ones you would put your shirt on as being most likely to give it a second go.

 

[MG1962]

For the bigots

I have recently been in germany and they are building numerous holocaust memorial sites. They have competing exhibitions about the trains and lines that took the prisoners to their deaths. They have exhibitions about the ovens and how they were used and what they were used for. There are exhibitions at most of the relevant sites including the ones that were not death camps.

Why are the germans so ready to admit and apologise for their deeds and to display this all to the rest of the world? They aplogise for their shame yet you display ignorance and cowardice and deny these acts.

Racists and bigots are the lowest of the low

Please refrain from using logic or evidence in this thread. There is no place for your kind here

 

[twinstead]

This is one of the very few times I wish I were indeed the religious type; I'd be confident that there was indeed a special place in hell for Holocaust deniers.

But, actually, I don't need to be religious. A bigot having to exist in a world where there will always be a majority of people who are rational and perfectly willing to deride him, laugh at him, and tell him exactly how vile his ideas are is the perfect punishment.

 

[Brainache]

Dear MaGZ,
Please hop into a time machine and go back to the mid thirties in Germany and tell everyone that you are Jewish. If the Holocaust didn't happen, you will have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, I suggest you just shut up.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I also think a comparison to D-Day to prove that an amphibious landing required enormous logistics is misleading. Firstly it's a matter of scale - the allied invasion was intended to capture all of Europe - the German invasion only had to capture the United Kingdom.

Secondly, this comparison fails to take into account the fact that the forces used in the Normandy Landings were significantly in excess of what was needed. With the exception of Omaha Beach the landings were virtually unopposed. Consider:

Gold - 24,970 ashore, 400 casualties (1.6%)
Juno - 14,000 ashore, 1079 casualties (7.7%)
Sword - 28,845 ashore, 630 casualties (2.1%)
Omaha - 34,000 ashore, 3,000 casualties (8.8%)
Utah - 23,250 ashore, 200 casualties (0.8%)

Numbers were also overwhelmingly in favour of the allies (1.5 million troops versus 300,000, 12,000 aircraft versus 300, and a 4:1 numerical advantage in armour). German forces had been severely depleted by campaigns in Russia and North Africa prior to the invasion - 80,000 of the German soldiers were Russian POWs who had offered to fight against Stalin and surrendered en masse to the allies - while the allies were enjoying the full military and industrial power of the United States.

Despite all of this the Germans inflicted severe casualties on the allies in the post-landing phase - a detail that reflects not the difficulties of an amphibious assault but the capabilities of the German army.

This doesn't really have a lot of bearing, though, on the logistical requirements of the invasion force after the landings. It's quite possible that the German army might have got ashore, however Heath Robinson were the arrangements for transporting them and however vulnerable the strings of towed barges might have been to attacks by the Royal Navy (note, by the way, that the Home Fleet at Scapa Flow needn't have been involved in any way; there were RN forces at Harwich, a couple of hours away from the invasion beaches, that could alone have defeated the entire available strength of the Kreigsmarine), but the arrangements in place to supply the forces after landing were virtually nonexistent. Without capturing a major port intact within a couple of days and then finding shipping to carry supplies - ships which didn't actually exist - the German invasion force would have been starved of fuel and ammunition. There simply was never enough sea lift capability to supply them.

The really extraordinary achievement of the Allies in executing Operation Overlord was that they were able to overcome these logistical difficulties, so that the invasion force was supplied for longer than a couple of days. Those were the problems that Germany not only never solved, but never even seriously addressed.

Dave

 

[gumboot]

The really extraordinary achievement of the Allies in executing Operation Overlord was that they were able to overcome these logistical difficulties, so that the invasion force was supplied for longer than a couple of days.

There was nothing really extraordinary about that achievement. It was called the United States of America.

ETA. No, that's not right. It's not that nothing was extraordinary about it. The United States of America was what was extraordinary.

 

[westprog]

In terms of Operation Sea Lion, that operation itself had a very low chance for success even if the Luftwaffe had achieved complete air superiority. The German army was inexperienced in seaborne landings, and they lacked proper equipment for such an undertaking. Most of what was being used to ferry the troops were little more than river barges, woefully inadequate for crossing the Channel, and had to be towed by tugs. A single flotilla of Royal Navy destroyers getting in amongst such a transport fleet could have easily decimated it.

This was seen when German E-boats attacked a D-Day rehearsal off a British beach, killing hundreds of US soldiers.

 

[MG1962]

There was nothing really extraordinary about that achievement. It was called the United States of America.

ETA. No, that's not right. It's not that nothing was extraordinary about it. The United States of America was what was extraordinary.

I am going to disagree with you there. While the US supplied men and material for the invasion. Most of the logisitc issues, such as the Mulbery Harbours were solved by the British, as well as the intial geologic and beach mapping.

A more balanced summation might suggest, the Britsh and Canadians could not have got there with out the US, the US could not have stayed there without the British

 

[westprog]

The regular British Army's only exposure to Blitzkrieg had ended in unmitigated disaster. I find it hard to believe the untrained, poorly equipped and poorly armed Home Guard would have faired any better.

I don't think that anyone seriously rated the military capacity of the Home Guard. They had a limited role in taking on some minor duties from the Army, and would have been able to provide some local knowlege.

Home defence would have been in the hands of the British Army, under officers such as Brooke, Alexander, Auchinleck and Montgomery. How they'd have done it's impossible to know, but they did all right later on.

 

[westprog]

Wouldn't you say that he should have been acquitted due to extenuating circumstances, though? After all, had the German pilot survived to return to action, he would undoubtedly have continued machine-gunning Allied parachutists.

Was anyone ever prosecuted for doing such a thing?

British aircraft would have had irrefutable evidence in the gun-linked cameras. I wonder if that was a deterrent.

 

[soetkin]

Setting aside the nonsense of Holocaust denial, this is really an interesting thread. You guys keep giving me thing to wiki and google and I've learned a lot of new things. Fascinating.

 

[robinson]

We deny the denial.

 

[twinstead]

Setting aside the nonsense of Holocaust denial, this is really an interesting thread. You guys keep giving me thing to wiki and google and I've learned a lot of new things. Fascinating.

Yes. That is one good side benefit of having to wade through all the conspiracy crap; a lot can be learned here.