Why truthers are dangerouse!

[TruthersLie]

Did you understand what I wrote?
I ´dodge´ nobody and ´run away´ from nobody on any issue I believe to be true.
´BS statement´ ???
You want me to go into a detailed answer and go completely off-topic (as I have been warned about regarding rules of this forum)?
I will answer your questions. But not here.

still waiting for you to answer any of those questions in a different thread...

do you need me to start it for you too?

 

[Justin39640]

I remember the stories. Not a few of the evil ones turned out to be incompetent nobodies, with no "Jihad" connections, egged on by Intelligence sting operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/men-arrested-fbi-nyc-terror-plot/story?id=8618732
There has been many stories like this in the last 8 years and a few before
Maybe if you lived in a target area you'd pay a little more attention.

We were talking about the military actions of the "War on Terror", of which invading, occupying and destroying Iraq is a major part.

Last time I checked we went into Iraq cause of WMD's not terrorism. Which again, I didn't agree with.
Al Queda showing up to fight us was secondary and later in the conflict.

ME: "There is military action, but it's not a war on terror. It's an aggressive resource war and an industrial gangster enterprise."

YOU: "What do you call it when you have a whole bunch military actions on terrorists at the same time? think about it..."

And no, I don't consider that Afghanistan was attacked because of a problem with extremism. It was attacked because of a problem with the US maintaining its position as the dominant world power.

Where do you get that? I like how you pull that out of nowhere and dont explain your position. Yeah cause Afghanistan was such a dominant player in the region bullying them around would help the US immensely...
no

A pointless excercise as they can and do simply move next door! Afghans aren't terrorists nor are Iraqis.

It instructive that you have swallowed this quaint Bush propaganda whole and uncritically.

I never said Afghans or Iraqis are terrorists. Did I? (undoubtedly some were recruited as a few Americans have been) When they move next door we'll kill them there too.
Unfortunately for your argument, I hated Bush. I wanted this crap to be true but the second I looked into it years ago, it was obvious it was loony BS.
Only the truly insane think we invaded Afghanistan for power and resources.

Your mind-reading attempts are undermined by the preconceptions imposed by your Mickey Mouse "hater" politics.

Oh yeah, you don't have any preconceptions

Please provide concrete evidence that I'm an "America hater"?

While you're at it, please describe my "agendas".

Sorry, for some reason I cant properly link to your post history. lol

Is that the sum total of your reaction to "collateral damage"?

What do you think the "collateral damage" feels about it? The carnage wrought by US air strikes in particular, in addition to the chronic insecurity created by the occupation, has meant that the Afghans now prefer the Taliban, who they hate, to the US, who they hate even more!

Collateral damage is an unfortunate thing in war. War isn't perfect like I guess you think it should be. The US tries to minimize this. Others involved, not so much.
And no one was insecure when the Taliban and Saddam rules their respective countries? Since 01 I haven't seen new videos of women being shot in the back of the head in a soccer stadium for not wearing berkas or the sadistic sons of a leader forcing citizens to jump off rooftops onto concrete.

Link to the documents, please.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22945797/
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/02/01/1107228705132.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1604931.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article596165.ece
There are many more examples out there.

Is "quite lopsided" your new definition of "most"?

The US also bombs schools and hospitals (in Fallujah, for example) not to mention journalists in Baghdad.

So you're saying that the US intentionally attacked these targets knowing civilians were present?
No they didn't.
On the other hand terrorists love to attack targets that don't shoot back.

No these 'people' really are people, just like you and me, human people with hopes and dreams, and they are no more cowardly than people who kill people from airplanes or computer terminals.

Terror apology noted.
No they're animals. Humans have reason and compassion. I've never seen an example of terrorists showing those traits.
The people in planes are going after the people who want to kill my family and yours. (yes even though you apologize for them they'd cut your head off as fast as they would mine) Don't forget, most of those people behind terminals and in planes are being directed by guys on the ground in the area (you know, to minimize collateral damage) Hardly cowardly.

 

[triforcharity]

I haven't detected mudlark doing any spitting at all... perhaps it is your own "in on it" drooling that is confusing you.


There are some unanswered questions for you earlier in the thread.

Linkey??

And no, you are completly wrong.

No these 'people' really are people, just like you and me, human people with hopes and dreams, and they are no more cowardly than people who kill people from airplanes or computer terminals.

Wow, you couldn't have made a more incorrect statement even if you tried.
Yeah, their hopes and dreams are of killing Americans no matter what the cost.

 

[funk de fino]

IThe carnage wrought by US air strikes in particular, in addition to the chronic insecurity created by the occupation, has meant that the Afghans now prefer the Taliban, who they hate, to the US, who they hate even more!

You lie.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The US also bombs schools and hospitals (in Fallujah, for example) not to mention journalists in Baghdad.

JihadJane, I know of the incident you are referring to. I also know the details you are deliberately ignoring so that you can indulge your own hatred.

A spanish TV crew covering the liberation of Baghdad leaned out a hotel window and pointed thier TV camera at an approaching US Abrams tank. The tank crew, seeing someone pointing something at them while in a battle zone responded appropriately.

A pair of dumbasses commited "suicide by cop" and your first instinct is to blame the innocent party. You do nothing but expose your own hatred and lack of thinking here.

 

[Justin39640]

JihadJane, I know of the incident you are referring to. I also know the details you are deliberately ignoring so that you can indulge your own hatred.

A spanish TV crew covering the liberation of Baghdad leaned out a hotel window and pointed thier TV camera at an approaching US Abrams tank. The tank crew, seeing someone pointing something at them while in a battle zone responded appropriately.

A pair of dumbasses commited "suicide by cop" and your first instinct is to blame the innocent party. You do nothing but expose your own hatred and lack of thinking here.

JJ also conveniently leaves out the fact that those hospitals and schools were abandoned and taken over by insurgents during the battle of Fallujah. I cannot find any casualties associated with the Nazzal hospital bombing. There are also tons of reports of schools that were used as weapons caches.

Far more of these locations have been bombed, on purpose, by terrorists. Terrorists target women and children, ON PURPOSE JJ. That's not the same thing as collateral damage. Those people weren't bystanders They were the intended victims.
Still want me to care about some AQ douchenozzle's hopes and dreams?

Please...

 

[funk de fino]

The carnage wrought by US air strikes in particular, in addition to the chronic insecurity created by the occupation, has meant that the Afghans now prefer the Taliban, who they hate, to the US, who they hate even more!

debunked again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/05_02_09afghan_poll_2009.pdf

 

[johnny karate]

Case in point:

jmh423 has been suspended for three days for advocacy of violence towards another member.

and:

jmh423 has been suspended for a month for threatening violence against another member.

And what was so smugly asked a short while ago...

So what is the basis of your claim that jmh423 is dangerous?

...becomes merely academic it seems.

 

[Justin39640]

debunked again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/05_02_09afghan_poll_2009.pdf

JJ anything?
(crickets)

 

[JihadJane]

Linkey??

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5281038#post5281038

And no, you are completly wrong.

About what?

Wow, you couldn't have made a more incorrect statement even if you tried.

What is incorrect about my statement?

Yeah, their hopes and dreams are of killing Americans no matter what the cost.

Please provide evidence that they aren't human beings.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JihadJane, I know of the incident you are referring to. I also know the details you are deliberately ignoring so that you can indulge your own hatred.

A spanish TV crew covering the liberation of Baghdad leaned out a hotel window and pointed thier TV camera at an approaching US Abrams tank. The tank crew, seeing someone pointing something at them while in a battle zone responded appropriately.

A pair of dumbasses commited "suicide by cop" and your first instinct is to blame the innocent party. You do nothing but expose your own hatred and lack of thinking here.

Your characterization of the attack as "suicide by cop" is characteristically sick, verging on psychopathic.

At best, the attack on the Palestine Hotel is an example of US incompetence and casual disregard for civilian lives. U.S. commanders were aware that the hotel was full of journalists.

However, it is not the incident I had in mind, which was the missile attack on Al-Jazeera's office.

It has been reported that George Bush supported targeting the TV station.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JJ also conveniently leaves out the fact that those hospitals and schools were abandoned and taken over by insurgents during the battle of Fallujah. I cannot find any casualties associated with the Nazzal hospital bombing. There are also tons of reports of schools that were used as weapons caches.

Reports by who?

No hospitals were abandoned voluntarily. The US targeted hospitals, "the first strategic target" of "Operation Phantom Fury", because they were a source information about the horrific results of US military actions on the population of Fallujah.

Far more of these locations have been bombed, on purpose, by terrorists. Terrorists target women and children, ON PURPOSE JJ. That's not the same thing as collateral damage. Those people weren't bystanders They were the intended victims.

Fallujah was reduced to rubble, 36,000 homes, 60 schools, and 65 mosques damaged or destroyed.

People in Fallujah report that people (men, women and children) were targeted by rooftop US snipers. They also report that ambulances were targeted.

Perhaps you have forgotten which is the only country in the world to have used nuclear bombs, on civilians, in cities.

Still want me to care about some AQ douchenozzle's hopes and dreams?

Please...

Where did I ask you to care about "some AQ douchenozzle's hopes and dreams"? I was inviting you to desist from pretending they weren't human beings like you and me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/men-arrested-fbi-nyc-terror-plot/story?id=8618732

I asserted that the US mainland threat was exaggerated after 9/11, not before. Recordings made by FBI informant, Emad Salema, suggest that he FBI could have prevented the WTC bombing.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/men-arrested-fbi-nyc-terror-plot/story?id=8618732

It is too soon to know the genesis of this plot, the leader of which was also an informant.

How would such a plot justify the "War on Terror"?

There has been many stories like this in the last 8 years and a few before. Maybe if you lived in a target area you'd pay a little more attention.

Unless you are confusing (easy-to-manipulate) perception of threat with actual threat, it's hard to make sense of your comment. How does living in a target area ( why do you assume that I don't also live in a target area?) give you more access to intelligence assessments than people not living in the target area?

Last time I checked we went into Iraq cause of WMD's not terrorism. Which again, I didn't agree with.
Al Queda showing up to fight us was secondary and later in the conflict.

You characterized the "War on Terror" as:

... a whole bunch military actions on terrorists at the same time

Where do you get that? I like how you pull that out of nowhere and dont explain your position. Yeah cause Afghanistan was such a dominant player in the region bullying them around would help the US immensely...
no

If you want to understand my position, do some research into Afghanistan's geostrategic importance.

Start by looking at a map of the region, paying careful attention to neighboring countries (near and far) and also to regional fossil fuel deposits and their transport routes.

Bear in mind that global fossil fuel production is near a once-in-history peak and that the US and it vast miltary machine is unable to meet its energy requirements from its own resources.

I never said Afghans or Iraqis are terrorists. Did I? (undoubtedly some were recruited as a few Americans have been) When they move next door we'll kill them there too.

You characterized the "War on Terror" as:

... a whole bunch military actions on terrorists at the same time

Unfortunately for your argument, I hated Bush. I wanted this crap to be true but the second I looked into it years ago, it was obvious it was loony BS.

It's irrelevant whether you love or hate Bush. It is very clear that you have swallowed much of the Bush-regime's terror propaganda regardless.

Only the truly insane think we invaded Afghanistan for power and resources.

I suggest you retake your psychology course.

Oh yeah, you don't have any preconceptions

I examine all my preconceptions. Participating in this in this forum is one of the ways I do it.

Sorry, for some reason I cant properly link to your post history. lol

A single example showing that I an an "America hater" and a short description of my agenda would suffice.

Collateral damage is an unfortunate thing in war. War isn't perfect like I guess you think it should be. The US tries to minimize this. Others involved, not so much.
And no one was insecure when the Taliban and Saddam rules their respective countries? Since 01 I haven't seen new videos of women being shot in the back of the head in a soccer stadium for not wearing berkas or the sadistic sons of a leader forcing citizens to jump off rooftops onto concrete.

I have read several interviews with Afghan women claiming that security was indeed better under the Taliban than under the current anarchy.

The US has no right to be in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22945797/

"...apparently were mentally disabled", "...apparently had Down syndrome"

No evidence of who the perpetrators were.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/02/01/1107228705132.html

No evidence of who the perpetrators were.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1604931.ece

No evidence of who the perpetrators were.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article596165.ece

"...an Iraqi army spokesman said that the bomber was targeting US military vehicles"

No evidence of who the perpetrators were.

There are many more examples out there.

Thanks for the links. If the US was under foreign military occupation similar atrocities would occur. War isn't perfect. Atrocities committed by resistance fighters are an unfortunate thing that happens when fighting armies with vastly superior resources.

So you're saying that the US intentionally attacked these targets knowing civilians were present?

Yes. Regrettable civilian deaths are "a price worth paying".

No they didn't.
On the other hand terrorists love to attack targets that don't shoot back.

Unlike people who drop bombs of people from airplanes or computer keyboards who are very easy to shoot back at!

Terror apology noted.

What apology?

No they're animals.

Define "animals"

Humans have reason and compassion. I've never seen an example of terrorists showing those traits.

Have you ever met a terrorist?

How often is killing another human compassionate, however it is achieved?

The people in planes are going after the people who want to kill my family and yours. (yes even though you apologize for them they'd cut your head off as fast as they would mine) Don't forget, most of those people behind terminals and in planes are being directed by guys on the ground in the area (you know, to minimize collateral damage) Hardly cowardly.

Ask the civilians on the ground if they think attacks from airplanes and drones are courageous. There are virtually no al Qaeda operatives left in Afghanistan. The Taliban aren't trying to kill your family or mine. They do not have international ambitions. That’s just silly propaganda-speak. They are evicting foreign invaders from their country. What do you think would happen if the US were under foreign miltary occupation?

JJ anything?
(crickets)

I don't know what the lovely funk de fino thinks he/she is "debunking".

It would help to know who is being polled and the methodology used to poll them.

 

[Justin39640]

snip...

Um so if they destroyed Nazzal hospital on purpose "to squash reports of the horror from US forces" whyyyyy didn't they do the same to the main hospital in Fallujah???

OK
So, you are telling me that Afghanistan is the "hub" and launching point to attack the entire mid east and steal all of that region's natural resources?


Yes these people are animals. They are not humans.

You think that if the US was invaded and occupied, we would strap explosives to people with down syndrome and send them out to be remotely detonated when they reached a target?
no

Would that happen in the UK? No

This whole rant screams you hate the US. Why else would you compare the Atomic Bomb to this conflict? Apples and oranges.

If we hadn't dropped those bombs JJ, what would have happened to Japan and would they have become the economic giant they are today? Just curious.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I'd like to see some evidence from JJ about the U.S. killing civilians. I bet JJ would probably bring up a video showing a terrorist sniper.

JJ is so full of (you know what) that he's hasn't made any damn sense what-so-ever.

 

[JihadJane]

Um so if they destroyed Nazzal hospital on purpose "to squash reports of the horror from US forces" whyyyyy didn't they do the same to the main hospital in Fallujah???

It was more useful to use it as a military position from which to attack the resistance.


(Who are you quoting, btw - "to squash reports of the horror from US forces"?)

OK
So, you are telling me that Afghanistan is the "hub" and launching point to attack the entire mid east and steal all of that region's natural resources?

Are you having fun rolling your eyes at your own, simplistic cartoon?

'Is War For Oil in the Middle East Inevitable Even Under Obama?'

Yes these people are animals. They are not humans.

Do you know anything about biology?

You think that if the US was invaded and occupied, we would strap explosives to people with down syndrome and send them out to be remotely detonated when they reached a target?
no

Would that happen in the UK? No

How do you know? Both countries have a vast back catalogue of perpetrating atrocities around the world as imperial powers. It is yet to be seen how they would behave as occupied territories of the New Islamic Caliphate. No country is free of violent criminals.

This whole rant screams you hate the US. Why else would you compare the Atomic Bomb to this conflict? Apples and oranges.

Misguided conspiracy theories, witch hunts and progroms are some testaments to the accuracy of screams as a tool of political analysis. Can you point to some actual examples showing that I am an "America hater" rather that a general smell?

I mention the Atomic Bomb because you are obviously living under the delusion that your terrorists are uniquely monstrous amongst those who use horrific violence for political ends.

If we hadn't dropped those bombs JJ, what would have happened to Japan and would they have become the economic giant they are today? Just curious.

Are you suggesting that it's okay to deliberately kill civilians, including those with learning difficulties, if it benefits their country's economy?

 

[triforcharity]

I wonder why flinging out an aggressive, fact-free personal accusation about an imagined emotional state would be more attractive than producing a historically-based counter argument.

I have already provided fact, you handwaved it away. Typical.

I have no emotional ties to you whatsoever.

I used the evidence that I have seen (your own posts, which contain lots of Anti American BS) to base my opinion that you hate America, or Americans in general. Not sure which.

A lot of people care about "Strategic blah blah bullcrap" a great deal, especially when they are assessing a threat realistically rather than fantastically.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosear...ck financial fraud&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

The FBI warned of a dangerouse “epidemic” of mortgage fraud in 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/17/mortgage.fraud/

Off topic, so I will disregard it.

Increased sales of what?

Pancakes, WTF do you THINK Ford sells??

Sorry, I can't be bothered to find it but I'll try and help you if you can.

Try reading my posts, and absorb what they said. Osmosis doesn't work for typed word. You have to actually read it.

It's impossible to know.

No, just look at any of the available facts.

After 9/11, many Airlines went under, as people were afraid to fly.
Less people traveled, as the attendance at Theme Parks and travel destinations declined.
Buisnesses saw less consumers, as people were making less large purchases.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Interesting speculation, presumably without any factual foundation whatsoever.

Exactly, Neither you, nor I, am privy to that information.

I was thinking of the country's leaders (who one could expect to behave rationally), talking about supposed "intelligence" findings based in reality, not the general population's paranoia and racist suspicions.

So, are you saying that we WEREN'T attacked?? Or that we DIDN'T have to right to be suspicious?? You can kiss my ass if you think otherwise.

There are reasons but they are not good ones. They are generally not apparent and not the ones advertized.

Proof? Evidence? I'll wait.......

Yes, big time! Whole countries are being trashed.

Ok, good point. Are we specifically targeting innocent civilians, hijacking planes, and crashing them into buildings?? No.

It was you raised the "strawman" subject of innocent civilian deaths.

How is that a strawman?? Did they, or did they not, attack innocent civilians?? Yes or no. Its quite a simple question.

What do you think it means?

I know what it means, but aparently you do not.

It was your claim that they were enemy combatants and scumbags. Have you got any proof? Links?? Evidence?? Argument from personal beliefs noted.

Actually, I believe someone posted that there have been 200 or so (IIRC) trials for terrorists here in the US.

No, my personal beliefs is we should have left them with their grey matter spilled out in the middle of the desert. Just my personal beliefs there.

How many Gitmo prisoners have been charged or convicted of terrorist crimes? They've been there a long time. What's the delay?

Again, as I have said, I believe there shouldn't BE a Gitmo. And there HAVE been trials. I will try to find the links at a later time, as tonight I couldn't care less.

When people get killed when other people lob explosives out of airplanes it's hardly accidental.

Proof??

You appear to rely on guesswork quite a lot!

The big boys were the ones committing the worst fraud.

The FBI warned of a dangerouse “epidemic” of mortgage fraud in 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/17/mortgage.fraud/

Off topic drivel ignored.

"The close relation between war and natural resources is of long standing. What else was colonial conquest about?"


"At the start of the twentieth century war casualties were 90 percent soldiers. Such 'traditional' wars are rare today. Resource wars with their devastating impacts on civilians have become the norm."

'Resource Wars'
by William K. Tabb

http://monthlyreview.org/0107tabb.htm

Personal opinions noted.

"...the free flow of cheap oil allows America to remain the dominant military power and the largest, most powerful economy."

'Global Resource Wars: The Rossetta Stone.'

http://resourceinsights.blogspot.com/2005/03/global-resource-wars-rosetta-stone.html

Aah yes, outdated research and incorrect asumptions.

Two problems with that report.

1- We do not have "cheap oil" as gas is averaging 2.40 ish a gallon where I live. More in other places.
2- The US is currently in one of the worst recessions in recent history.

"The conflict in Afghanistan derives from American efforts to dominate the resources of the Persian Gulf."

'Is the conflict in Afghanistan a resource war?'
- an interview with Michael Klare

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Oil_watch/Resource_War.html

More personl opinions noted.

BTW, you posed a question, asking me to provide proof they aren't humans??

How many normal humans want to kill an entire nation's people, just because they are a free nation, and don't believe in their BS?? Oh, yeah, scumbags.

I will contend that they are in the form of humans, but their actions make them more sub-human lifeforms than anything.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Your characterization of the attack as "suicide by cop" is characteristically sick, verging on psychopathic.

"Characteristically sick"? So not believing, as the voices of the sponge demons that live in your walls have told you, that 9/11 was an inside job is a symptom of mental illness now? Can you tell me what page of the DSM-IV you found that on?

This may come as a surprise to you, but if you were to walk out into the street with a toy gun painted black and point it at police officers, in strict legal terms, it's your fault if you get shot. In practice, leaning out a building window while in a war zone, especially an urban one, and pointing something at a passing tank is no different.

Can you tell the difference between the targetting unit of a modern anti-tank missile launcher and a TV camera from hundreds of yards away while inside a tank?

No?... I didn't think so.

At best, the attack on the Palestine Hotel is an example of US incompetence

No it wasn't, precisely the opposite in fact. The crew of the M1 became aware that someone was pointing something at them, they quickly identified the specific window of the specific building it was coming from and accurately put rounds on the target.

and casual disregard for civilian lives.

Right... the military that fills their bombs with concrete so they don't explode and kill non-combatants near the target has a casual disregard for life?

American fighter jets patrolling northern Iraq are using an innovative new weapon against President Saddam Hussein: concrete.

Wary of killing civilians, the Air Force has begun filling 2,000-pound, laser-guided bombs with concrete instead of explosives and dropping them on military targets near populated areas, American military officials here said.

A concrete bomb, the use of which has not previously been disclosed, can still destroy a target, but minimizes the risk that explosive bomb fragments will kill or wound innocent Iraqis who might be nearby.

''It can stub your toe,'' Lieut. Col. Michael S. Waters, a spokesman for the American operation here in this base near the Mediterranean, said of the concrete. ''But there's no chance of collateral damage,'' he added, using the military's euphemism for civilian deaths.

More of your deliberate lies so that you can feel justified in your hatred of the United States and it's servicemen, JihadJane?

U.S. commanders were aware that the hotel was full of journalists.

You mean the guys in the headquarters tents hundreds of miles away? How about the commander of the tank itself? Did he know? Do you care?

It has been reported that George Bush supported targeting the TV station.

"It has been reported" huh? Use weasel words much, JihadJane?

It has also been reported (on holocaust denial websites) that 9/11 wasn't the fault of Osama Bin Laden and 19 mind-numbed fanatics. Maybe you should try to prove one thing at a time?

EDIT: By the way, your calling me "sick" and "psychopathic" is NOT reported. I'd rather it be left out there for all to see.

 

[dafydd]

You're more likely to hear an American speak Cambodian than hear them say bloody.

He sounds Australian to me.

 

[decojuicer]

I've spent the better part of 2 days reading this thread(between hunting and bad internet connections, I had to do it in one or two page intervals), and I am confused: Are Truthers dangerous?

My own reaction, based solely on my own personal experience, would be to say yes.

Again, I will qualify this by saying that this is based on my own personal experience and interactions with those who called themselves Truthers.

Most of the Truthers that I know, or have been in contact with, are the same "gubmint hatin" pro-militia crowd from 15-20 years ago. They are the same people who were screaming about murder at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

The majority of Truthers that I know are "end of the world" types who stockpile guns, ammo, and supplies for when the excrement hits the fan. Why stockpile weapons and ammo if you don't plan to use them for some purpose?

They also seem to have come to the Truth Movement with an anti-government agenda already in mind. So the question that I always ask is if they are actually looking for the truth or if they are looking for a new way to move their anti-government agenda forward.

Most of these people believe that income tax is illegal, the federal government is out to destroy the power base of the white male, and that the NSA is spying on every American out there. They also idolize people like Alex Jones, who they don't see as big mouthed publicity whores, but instead as the one shining beacon of light in a dark media world.

I consider anti-government fanatics with large weapon caches and a stockpile of ammunition to be dangerous.

I realize that this is painting with a broad stroke, but it comes from my direct experiences.

I do have another hypothesis that I would like to ask about, but that's for another thread. It's pretty off topic, even for this thread.

 

[funk de fino]

I don't know what the lovely funk de fino thinks he/she is "debunking".

It would help to know who is being polled and the methodology used to poll them.

Try reading the poll that debunks your false claims about Afghans hating the Americans more than the Taliban. I guess this will be like your 7/7 disaster and you will have to revert to fakery rubbish eh?

Utterly pathetic.

 

[JihadJane]

I have already provided fact, you handwaved it away. Typical.

The only fact you have presented in support of your belief that the Russian threat wasn't exaggerated has been that non-mashed potato nuclear weapons were briefly stationed in Cuba. These weapons were removed after the US gave a public assurance that it wouldn't invade Cuba and and that it would remove its nuclear weapons from Italy and Turkey.

How does this nuclear stand-off relate, for example, to McCarthy's mad paranoid conspiracy theories and his embarrassing American Inquisition?

I have no emotional ties to you whatsoever.

Nor did I claim you did. I simply observed that you provide fantasies about my supposed emotional state rather than factual support for you beliefs.

I used the evidence that I have seen (your own posts, which contain lots of Anti American BS) to base my opinion that you hate America, or Americans in general. Not sure which.

I suggest you review your evidence processing methods because your conclusion is wrong. Can you give specific examples to support your otherwise meaningless generalizations?

Off topic, so I will disregard it.

Being off topic only seems to worry you now that that I have provided the proof you asked me for.

Pancakes, WTF do you THINK Ford sells??

What do you think it sells? I'm not aware of any increase in its sales of cars, trucks etc. Perhaps you are thinking of something else.

Try reading my posts, and absorb what they said. Osmosis doesn't work for typed word. You have to actually read it.

I've followed your pompous advise and still can't find an "over-worded post" that could give the impression that I don't think the 9/11 attacks were criminal.

No, just look at any of the available facts.

After 9/11, many Airlines went under, as people were afraid to fly.
Less people traveled, as the attendance at Theme Parks and travel destinations declined.
Buisnesses saw less consumers, as people were making less large purchases.

How does any of that help know what would have happened to the economy in the absence of the attacks?

So, are you saying that we WEREN'T attacked?? Or that we DIDN'T have to right to be suspicious?? You can kiss my ass if you think otherwise.

I'm saying that, post-911, the threat from terrorism has been exaggerated by the US and other governments, just as the Russian threat was exaggerated, and just as the threat from Iraq was exaggerated and, now, just as the threat from Iran is exaggerated.

The list of exaggerated threats is almost as long as the list of US military interventions.

Proof? Evidence? I'll wait.......

Do you know why the US is still in Afghanistan?

The US "democracy-spreading" mission is only activated in strategically important regions while equally "evil" regimes in other part of the world are ignored.

Ok, good point. Are we specifically targeting innocent civilians, hijacking planes, and crashing them into buildings?? No.

Collateral damage is a "price worth paying".

Trashing countries kills innocent civilians.

How is that a strawman??

I don't know. That's what you called it

Did they, or did they not, attack innocent civilians?? Yes or no. Its quite a simple question.

Yes.

Actually, I believe someone posted that there have been 200 or so (IIRC) trials for terrorists here in the US.

Evidence? What were the outcomes?

No, my personal beliefs is we should have left them with their grey matter spilled out in the middle of the desert. Just my personal beliefs there.

Even taxi drivers, children and other innocents handed over by bounty hunters?

Again, as I have said, I believe there shouldn't BE a Gitmo. And there HAVE been trials. I will try to find the links at a later time, as tonight I couldn't care less.

Any luck yet?

Proof??

Drop explosives out airplanes and people will get killed.

Don't drop any and people won't get killed by explosives being dropped out of airplanes.

Personal opinions noted.

Is that what you call all in-depth, fully referenced studies that contradict your preferred beliefs?

Aah yes, outdated research and incorrect asumptions.

Two problems with that report.

1- We do not have "cheap oil" as gas is averaging 2.40 ish a gallon where I live. More in other places.
2- The US is currently in one of the worst recessions in recent history.

$2.40 a gallon is very cheap energy. Enjoy it while it lasts!

More personl opinions noted.

Fact-based analysis, actually.

BTW, you posed a question, asking me to provide proof they aren't humans??

How many normal humans want to kill an entire nation's people, just because they are a free nation, and don't believe in their BS?? Oh, yeah, scumbags.

Does not being a "normal" human means one isn't a human?

Can you identify any "humans who want to kill an entire nation's people, just because they are a free nation"?

Even taking into consideration your other irrational beliefs, I am surprised that you believe that childish "They attacked us coz of our freedoms" cartoon BS.

I will contend that they are in the form of humans, but their actions make them more sub-human lifeforms than anything.

Their behavior is all too human.

No sub-human lifeforms need to be appropriated to explain human violence.

 

[JihadJane]

"Characteristically sick"? So not believing, as the voices of the sponge demons that live in your walls have told you, that 9/11 was an inside job is a symptom of mental illness now? Can you tell me what page of the DSM-IV you found that on?

Is seeking others' demons your only method of introspection?

This may come as a surprise to you, but if you were to walk out into the street with a toy gun painted black and point it at police officers, in strict legal terms, it's your fault if you get shot. In practice, leaning out a building window while in a war zone, especially an urban one, and pointing something at a passing tank is no different.

No-one was "leaning out of a window". Has your sword of truth gone blunt or does it only cut one way?

Can you tell the difference between the targetting unit of a modern anti-tank missile launcher and a TV camera from hundreds of yards away while inside a tank?

No?... I didn't think so.


No it wasn't, precisely the opposite in fact. The crew of the M1 became aware that someone was pointing something at them, they quickly identified the specific window of the specific building it was coming from and accurately put rounds on the target.

You write convincing fiction. The US military's first made-up explanation - that the tank was under fire - also seemed convincing until film of its manoeuvres prior to the attack emerged exposing their lie.

Contrary to your "ticking bomb" tale, the film shows that the tank operators didn't do anything "quickly".

It's interesting, too, that you ignore the incident that I was referring to - the attack on al Jazeera's offices, targeted despite repeated assurances from the US military that it would not be hit.

If the US was unable to avoid targeting the Palestine Hotel, one of the best known civilians zones in Baghdad, or al Jazeera's offices, for which it had co-ordinates, what are its assurances that it it can avoid slaughtering any civilians anywhere worth?


A simple solution would be to avoid launching unprovoked, aggressive wars in the first place.

Right... the military that fills their bombs with concrete so they don't explode and kill non-combatants near the target has a casual disregard for life?



More of your deliberate lies so that you can feel justified in your hatred of the United States and it's servicemen, JihadJane?

I've got nothing against the United States or it servicemen. I am opposed to its rulers' ruthless, bullying hyperviolence.

So are the drones now accidentally slaughtering civilians in Pakistan filled with concrete?

Much of the worst violence against civilians in US military campaigns is carried out by unaccountable mercenaries or farmed out to death squads, one of the lovely General Stanley McChrystal's specialities.

You mean the guys in the headquarters tents hundreds of miles away? How about the commander of the tank itself? Did he know? Do you care?

Are they still using messenger pigeons to communicate with each other? See above.

If commanders are unable to control who their weaponry , perhaps they should seek a less lethal profession.

"It has been reported" huh? Use weasel words much, JihadJane?

"Accurate" would be a more accurate word than "weasel".

It has also been reported (on holocaust denial websites) that 9/11 wasn't the fault of Osama Bin Laden and 19 mind-numbed fanatics. Maybe you should try to prove one thing at a time?

Did you read the linked article before you activated your auto-pilot twoofie holocaust program?

EDIT: By the way, your calling me "sick" and "psychopathic" is NOT reported. I'd rather it be left out there for all to see.

As far as I know, there's nothing in the MA that proscribes criticizing people's characterizations, cartoons, theories, beliefs etc with reference to psychopathology and mental illness. If there were, you yourself would probably have been banned long ago!