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Why not war against Islam?

So you can't deny Islam without slamming Christianity? I dislike all religions equally but I haven't seen any videos of Christians cutting off the hands and feet of others.

Besides the fact you're showing off ignorance to Christian charity you should also note that you aren't even refuting ANTpogo's (logical) reasoning, rather ducking the issue and presenting fallacies like that of ignorance.

Maybe it's time to stop denouncing Islam and instead denounce the evil decisions of the perpetrators. Maybe their faith shouldn't be validated because you want to pin atrocities on it, forgoing the actual perpetrators of the atrocities.
 
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Stop being "disingenuous" (I'm being polite). If people undertake to persuade their fellow citizens to go to war, they have to consider this question among others: exactly what outcome of the war would they consider to represent a victory? That is, crudely, what are the "war aims"?

That question is incomprehensible in relation to a war on "Islam" because it is NOT A CORPORATE BODY that can decide to resist, surrender, or sue for peace on terms. If you go to war with, for example, Slovenia, then you could make demands on the Slovene government, and if these were agreed, that would be victory. But there is no such entity within Islam or any other religion, so "war on Islam" can mean nothing but war on Muslims. That's why religious wars are so bloody and interminable. They go on until one side or the other is annihilated, or until the society in which they are waged disintegrates.

I don't want that. It's got nothing to do with being an Islamophile or wanting to slam Christianity. If anyone proposed a war on Christianity my reaction would be exactly the same.

Why yes you are an Islamophile you seem to think that Islam is better than other religions thats why you keep mentioning them.
 
"Deny" Islam? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

But while it's certainly possible to discuss Islam without also discussing Christianity, the strong similarities and the historical and doctrinal connections between the two make it difficult. And in the context of claims like those made by the OP and elsewhere in this thread, it's pretty much impossible.



You can always go to Uganda and the Congo to witness it in person.

You're the one who is the apologetic for Islam so you're the one who has to explain the video of cutting off the hands.
 
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Then why don't you try it.

Try what? You highlighted two entirely separate parts of my post.

Discussing Islam without also discussing Christianity? You mean like I did in this thread? I'd love to do more stuff like that, though threads like this kind of limit my options in that regard when I attempt to address the particular thread topics (which are not about specifics of Islamic theology, but instead about how Islam is particularly bad/evil/threatening/etc.).

Witness Christians hacking the limbs off of people in person in places like Uganda and the Congo? I'm not the one claiming "Christians" don't do that sort of thing.
 
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Or you can live in America and watch it in person.

Again, what part of the highlighted portions of my post is that directed at?

Watch people in America discuss Islam without discussing Christianity in person? I've done that. Watched videos of it, too.

Witness Christians in America chopping off hands and feet? I'd rather it just get reported to the police, thanks. I don't need to watch it for myself.
 
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You're the one who is the apologetic for Islam so you're the one who has to explain the video of cutting off the hands...

What exactly is wrong with defending Muslims & Islam against vicious, ignorant, & bigoted lies from Islamophobes?
 
What exactly is wrong with defending Muslims & Islam against vicious, ignorant, & bigoted lies from Islamophobes?

Apparently if you argue against bigotry then you must be in league with those who are hated (bigots could care less if you actually stand for things like, oh I don't know, logic and reason). I can imagine this is how bigots felt about the Freedom Riders

You're the one who is the apologetic for Islam so you're the one who has to explain the video of cutting off the hands.

Shut up, you're the one who has to prove that Islam advocates cutting off hands in the first place, and I'm afraid a lot of Muslims in America don't seem to be doing that. Makes you wonder, could it be something OTHER than Islam that seems to ferment the violence? As ANTpogo put it:

Because Islam doesn't exist in either a social, geopolitical, or religious vacuum.
Maybe you should direct your attention to something other than Islam. You may learn yourself a few things...
 
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So you can't deny Islam without slamming Christianity? I dislike all religions equally but I haven't seen any videos of Christians cutting off the hands and feet of others.

Have you heard of the Rwandan genocide? Over 93% of Rwandans are Christian.
 
You're the one who is the apologetic for Islam so you're the one who has to explain the video of cutting off the hands.

You didn't ask me to explain it. You merely stated that you'd never seen any video of Christians doing the same.

That's why I helpfully pointed out places where you could see Christians do such things in person, since your post implied that since you hadn't seen any videos of Christians committing horrific acts like that, that meant Christians didn't commit horrific acts like that. Which, of course, was incorrect.

As for your statement above, what specifically do you want me to address regarding the video?

You haven't come out and stated it explicitly, but it's pretty clear from the above accusation that I'm an "apologetic for Islam", as well as you tossing around "Islamophile", that you're espousing some sort of false dichotomy regarding Islam and attitudes towards it. You can either think Islam is the Worst Thing Ever, or you love it so much you want to marry it...or so you seem to be saying.

But that's not only not true, it's not anywhere close to what I and others are trying to say. Any definition and discussion of "Islam" can't be about only the violent extremists, or only the peaceful moderates. No, any definition of "Islam" has to encompass and address both of those. More, it also has to encompass everything in between.

So, the fact that you've seen videos of some Muslims cutting the hands off people (without knowing what specific video you mean, I can only assume this is in Saudi Arabia, the worst offender when it comes to things like that) means nothing other than some Muslims cut the hands off of people. The problem comes when you try force responsibility or blame for that on Muslims who not only haven't severed any limbs, but would never even want to.

"Islam" comprises both of these disparate groups of Muslims and their discordant beliefs, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. And yes, this does cut both ways.

Er, so to speak.
 
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You're the one who is the apologetic for Islam so you're the one who has to explain the video of cutting off the hands.

It's explained the same way one explains these videos.



I Rwanda, many Christians acted to protect those who were being slaughtered. Yet many Christians, including members of the Catholic clergy, participated in the genocide of some 800,000 people. Interestingly, following the genocide, many Rwandans converted to Islam because Muslims offered them protection.

Yes, some Muslims do terrible things, but most are just human beings trying to live their lives in peace. The same goes for Christians, Jews, Hindus etcetera. I haven't seen anyone arguing that Christianity is actually worse than Islam, only that Islam is no better or worse than any other major religion and objecting to the singling out of Islam for special criticism.
 
Try what? You highlighted two entirely separate parts of my post.

Discussing Islam without also discussing Christianity? You mean like I did in this thread? I'd love to do more stuff like that, though threads like this kind of limit my options in that regard when I attempt to address the particular thread topics (which are not about specifics of Islamic theology, but instead about how Islam is particularly bad/evil/threatening/etc.).

Witness Christians hacking the limbs off of people in person in places like Uganda and the Congo? I'm not the one claiming "Christians" don't do that sort of thing.

I don't know what it is with you and Christianity yet I noticed that all Islamophiles can't help but compare Islam and Christianity since I'm an atheist it doesn't cut it for me
 
I don't know what it is with you and Christianity yet I noticed that all Islamophiles can't help but compare Islam and Christianity since I'm an atheist it doesn't cut it for me

Are you using "Islamophiles" as an epithet? Folks who defend Islam & Muslims against bigoted & ignorant lies are now "Islam-lovers"?

I guess this is the same as how white people who defended black rights down South were considered "N-lovers", by the Klan and other Dixie racists.
 
Are you using "Islamophiles" as an epithet? Folks who defend Islam & Muslims against bigoted & ignorant lies are now "Islam-lovers"?

I guess this is the same as how white people who defended black rights down South were considered "N-lovers", by the Klan and other Dixie racists.

I was just about to post the same observation.
 
I'm glad that you know what I mean in my posts better than I do.

You are now resorting to gibberish. Remember your original statement
Why yes you are an Islamophile you seem to think that Islam is better than other religions thats why you keep mentioning them.

I have never said that. I think they are the same, and false. But we are considering WAR on Islam. I oppose that, exactly as I would oppose a war on Christianity. Now address that point! But as Dayan says, like the KKK you simply shout time and time again the modern equivalent of "N-lover". Or if the going gets tough, you shout, "nothing to do with me; I'm an atheist" as Lowpro observes.

If you are being honest, you have real problems of understanding, which I entreat you to address ASAP.
 
Humanity is not the love fest that you want it to be.
Do not attack the messenger for giving you this message.

Why not war against Humanity, then?

First they came for the Muslims, and many cried out though they were not Muslims.
Then they came for the Catholics, and many cried out though they were not Catholic.

Now they come for the Humans. Errmm.., It's a fair cop.
 
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maybe it would be clever to not use the word war, because it is confusing, especially since extremist islamic groups have a real war on them.


If you do not know that Islam does not equal Muslims you have only yourself to blame for your confusion.

Even if members of this forum were in a bunker in Afghanistan, I think they should know the difference.
 
Bill

Our last posts crossed. I am still at a loss to know what you are on about. Many participants in this thread are "talking about history and the Bible". How anyone can contemplate the issue of war (under whatever definition) on Islam without raising these subjects is a total mystery to me. You baffle me completely.
 
Yeah, that'll bring 'em over. 'Thanks, Bill, for waging war on Islam, as soon as I heard you were waging war on Islam it brought me hope; your friend, Muslima.'
 

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