Why not war against Islam?

[Bill Thompson]

Because the muslim world is too big and the westerners are pussies

 

[Leumas]

The Soviets were orders of magnitude more dangerous. The first order of business was to get rid of the freaking Soviets. Now we've got some other ignorant sluts to get rid of. OK, so some of the currently dead or geriatric ones were fighting the Soviets 30 years ago. They were bound to be fighting someone. Have they ever done anything else? So cry me a river of crocodile tears, play a blame game, spew some propaganda, whatever. Anything to cloud the issue.

Consider if some lunatic were to weaponize an extra virulent strain of the Plague. He then deploys it in some war to defeat the enemy. He succeeds. But unfortunately he did not calculate the unforeseen consequences and did not realize that the plague continued to spread and contaminated nearby areas and continued to spread uncontrollably.

Let’s now assume some contaminated victim from the areas to which the plague spread touched you and contaminated YOU.

Do you blame the contaminated victim for transmitting the virus to YOU? Do you accept the contamination you have and almost sure death with pleasure knowing that your enemy is dead already? Do you not in hindsight at least acknowledge that the whole venture was foolhardy and should have never been done? Do you try to CURE the victims or do you BLAME THEM for being carriers of the virus?

Do you then condone yet ANOTHER weaponized virus release to annihilate the victims?

 

[DC]

Because the muslim world is too big and the westerners are pussies

so you have no problem with a war against a whole religion? I gues because of taqiyya we can not allow them to convert to christianity? I mean they are even alowed to eat pork when they have to fear for their lives.
would it be enough they officialy burn all korans and print new ones with all violence removed? or how do you think we should do it? and can we also do it with other religions such as yours?

 

[tsig]

Because the muslim world is too big and the westerners are pussies

You may want to expand on that a bit.

 

[Toontown]

ConsiderifsomelunaticweretoweaponizeanextravirulentstrainofthePlague.Hethendeploysitinsomewartodefeattheenemy.Hesucceeds.Butunfortunatelyhedidnotcalculatetheunforeseenconsequencesanddidnotrealizethattheplaguecontinuedtospreadandcontaminatednearbyareasandcontinuedtospreaduncontrollably.Let’snowassumesomecontaminatedvictimfromtheareastowhichtheplaguespreadtouchedyouandcontaminatedYOU.
DoyoublamethecontaminatedvictimfortransmittingthevirustoYOU?Doyouacceptthecontaminationyouhaveandalmostsuredeathwithpleasureknowingthatyourenemyisdeadalready?Doyounotinhindsightatleastacknowledgethatthewholeventurewasfoolhardyandshouldhaveneverbeendone?DoyoutrytoCUREthevictimsordoyouBLAMETHEMforbeingcarriersofthevirus?
DoyouthencondoneyetANOTHERweaponizedvirusreleasetoannihilatethevictims?

You cannot be serious with that pile of irrelevant crap, which I have taken the liberty of compacting like the useless garbage it is.

I was being sarcastic when I said "Anything to cloud the issue." It wasn't a serious request for you to drizzle out even more issue-clouding dweezleblabber.

 

[Ethnikos]

*snip*
It's up to us people of this generation to stop war and death or the end result will not be good for anyone.

I didn't see that in your earlier posts, and in fact I saw something that seems quite the opposite. That Armageddon has begun and we can not stop it. Then you read off names of modern nations and imply that these were all named in prophecies as if we are supposed to believe that these particular countries are now engaged in this last day war.
Interesting how when it is convenient for you, to distance yourself from the Old Testament and say "that was back then" but when it is convenient for you to place blame on others, the Old Testament comes in real handy. You don't bother mentioning these are only guesses and if anything, the prophecies were about the wars between the four empires that were what resulted from the death of Alexander the Great. So you are basically saying that every country that lies in the geographical region that was once host of Alexander's empire is now our enemy.
You need to get your story straight.
You either are for all out war against a quarter of the world's population and will not be content untill they are all dead, or you do not want war and wish to end war, so do not support the Anglo/American Empire wars in the middle East and Africa.
I would say all the wars the US is engaged in is what would bring Armageddon, if anything.
Seems like you have already thrown in your lot with total war. How many babies will be burnt alive by your war?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Heil Jesus!

I was briefly considering a serious response to your posts.

I no longer feel that is necessary.

 

[Dayan81]

All three of the Monotheistic Faiths were spread by blood & the sword. All three faiths have passages within their holy books that call for intolerance towards certain "non-believers".

And Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all have passages in their holy books that call for kindness, generosity, and fairness to all men..including "non-believers".

It is the height of hypocrisy for members of any of these three faiths to claim that their writings, teachings & history is more loving or peaceful than those of the other two.

Anyone who argues that Islam is all about murder & conquest while Judaism & Christianity are all about love & peace, should read about the Bosnian War, the Kosovo War, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Operation Desert Storm, the Iraq War, the NATO invasion of Afghanistan, and so on and so forth. These were all actions committed by Christians & Jews against Muslim lands.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I've had quite a few discussions with Muslims over the last few years and from what what I learned, Islam teaches (among many other things):

1. Muslims need to spread Islam.
2. Islam is spread by "inviting" the kkuffar to join.
3. If they refuse, they need to be conquered through offensive Jihad.
4. After the conquest, "people of the book" will be second-class citizens with very few rights.
5. Prisoners of war and their female relatives can be sold as slaves.

Now, I know that the vast majority of the Muslims have no abitions to actually go on such a Jihad and the idea that "The West is at war with Islam" is silly but for the sake of the argument, why would anyone who adheres to an ideology which in itself is a declaration of war against anyone who doesn't adhere to it be surprised if those people took the war to Muslim lands pre-emptively?

Not really expecting an answer from anyone but it's a question no Muslim I've talked to has ever been able to give a rational answer to.

We should not consider ourselves at war with all Islam because that would be counter-productive in the fight against radical islam.

The war against radical islam cannot be won by jews, christians, hindus, bhuddists, shintos, etc... It can only be won by muslims themselves. By making this a war against all islam, you are proving the radicals correct and pushing joe average muslim into their camp.

 

[Toontown]

What about Deuteronomy 13?

Deuteronomy 13 sucks, and exemplifies the genetic predisposition among humans to fervently believe in the prevailing god of their immediate vicinity. Historically, those who have not done so have been culled out by murder.

Did you have a point, or are you simply so uncomfortable with any criticism of Islam that you feel compelled to redirect the thread away from the uncomfortable subject?

 

[Ethnikos]

Anyone who argues that Islam is all about murder & conquest while Judaism & Christianity are all about love & peace, should read about the Bosnian War, the Kosovo War, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Operation Desert Storm, the Iraq War, the NATO invasion of Afghanistan, and so on and so forth. These were all actions committed by Christians & Jews against Muslim lands.

I could argue and let's see if you have an answer.
The Muslims swept across North African and did not wait around to see if anyone wanted to accept their religion but just wiped out entire populations, then moved their own people in to replace all the dead people.
Out of this list of yours, where were a Christian population moved in to replace the dead Muslims.
The same can not be said of Israelis, maybe.

 

[rustypouch]

Deuteronomy 13 sucks, and exemplifies the genetic predisposition among humans to fervently believe in the prevailing god of their immediate vicinity. Historically, those who have not done so have been culled out by murder.

Did you have a point, or are you simply so uncomfortable with any criticism of Islam that you feel compelled to redirect the thread away from the uncomfortable subject?

Where did you get the idea that I am uncomfortable with the criticism of Islam? Do unpleasant bible verses cause you so much concern that you must attack anyone who points them out?

All religions are superstitious crap. I just don't know enough about Islam and the Koran to discuss the finer points.

It was just pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians, ignoring the plank in their own eye.

 

[Leumas]

However, the OP did focus on the ways in which islam leads people to behave badly, and it did raise in my mind the suggestion that islam is worse in this regard than other religions, as well as the suspicion that the OP writer may be coming at this from a christian position. Having done so, I think it is quite fair to address the perceived imbalanced assertion in the OP by pointing out that other religions, especially christianity, have similar beliefs and behaviors.

Exactly....

 

[Mister Earl]

From my own personal experience (Time spent in Iraq), at least some Muslims are Muslim in the same way many Christians are Christians. To be more specific, they don't particularly take the message to heart, and instead it is a mask they wear to better fit into society. I knew quite a few Iraqis that had porn on their cell phones and drank alcohol.

And again, personal experience with a small sample size, but they seemed to be exceedingly remarkably like us. They just want to be able to provide for their families and take care of their friends without undue interference and foolishness.

 

[FireGarden]

Oh look Old Testament history book stuff. All those old cultures and people that where destroyed had all kinds of wicked things they did such as burning their kids alive in fires, enslaving other people around them, etc.

If they had survived so would have all their rituals and we would have a culture based upon burning kids alive to make it rain etc.

Also, what the heck you think is kinda going on right now in the world with these Non Religous wars? It is basically war in order to have control of mass amounts of people and land. Leaders don't just lead, they control people through laws and rules.

There you seem to be giving a justification for war. Even genocide.

But, earlier, you quoted bits of the Quran which advocate war. To give you credit, you included at least some of the justifications in your quotes. eg:

These are some of the 164+ Jihad verses from the Koran:

Excerpt K 2:178-179
Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain... [2.179] ...there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.

You can retaliate if one of yours is killed.

Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

You can fight those who fight you / persecute you.

But, sometimes, you don't quote the context:

Excerpt K 8:012
Set 28, Count 62 ...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/yaq/yaq008.htm

The command is from God to his angels, and the unbelievers in question are the opposing army at the battle of Badr.

 

[Toontown]

Where did you get the idea that I am uncomfortable with the criticism of Islam? Do unpleasant bible verses cause you so much concern that you must attack anyone who points them out?

All religions are superstitious crap. I just don't know enough about Islam and the Koran to discuss the finer points.

It was just pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians, ignoring the plank in their own eye.

Sure, dude. I believe that. You just don't know enough about Islam to criticize it. That's why you never criticize Islam, but always tu quoque around to Christianity on any criticism of Islam, in order to point out Christian hypocrisy. Because you don't know enough about Islam to point out any Muslim hypocrisy.

Yeah. That's it.

 

[FireGarden]

I could argue and let's see if you have an answer.
The Muslims swept across North African and did not wait around to see if anyone wanted to accept their religion but just wiped out entire populations, then moved their own people in to replace all the dead people.

Do you have a source for that?
Could you tell me how long it took for Islam to be the majority religion of, say, Egypt?

Out of this list of yours, where were a Christian population moved in to replace the dead Muslims.

Do you think the Serbians intended to leave the 'vacated' land empty?

 

[Leumas]

Where did you get the idea that I am uncomfortable with the criticism of Islam? Do unpleasant bible verses cause you so much concern that you must attack anyone who points them out?

All religions are superstitious crap. I just don't know enough about Islam and the Koran to discuss the finer points.

It was just pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians, ignoring the plank in their own eye.

Exactly....


I am just sick and tired of having a conversation with Christian Fundamentalists who keep on and on about how islam is a religion of violence and that Judeo-Christianity is a religion of Love and tolerance.

Islam is a VIRUS and so are the other two religions that emanate from the loins of YHWH.

What I object to is not the criticism about Islam.... it is that a fundamentalist christian is doing it. It is like the proverbial pot and kettle.

The amazing thing is that EVEN ATHEISTS who are from a christian background DO NOT want to hear about how the Bible is full of ATROCITIES.

The fundamentalists go about telling about how it was different then 3000 years ago....but only when the YHWH's CHOSEN are criticised....but the Canaanites etc. were "wicked".... for them the allowance of living 3000 years ago in a Christian fundamentalist mind is not applicable.

It amazes me that in the mind of a fundamentalist it is JUST FINE to genocide and exterminate entire populations .... because they were "wicked". But they keep on insisting that Christianity is a religion of love and tolerance.

And some UTTERLY REFUSE to even LOOK AT the verses of rapine, extirpation and genocide....they deny they exist and when you try to point them out they REFUSE to look.

So it is tantamount to utter incapacitating COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. What is more is that this CD also exists even in some self labeled skeptics and atheists.

You are perfectly right about the plank in the eye aspect. Let us see if the fundamentalist christians can understand what Jesus meant when he said:

Matt 7:1-5
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

But since moslims are not "thy brother" maybe the whole thing is just above their heads.

 

[Toontown]

Yeah! that's it. That's why any thread aimed at Islam always gets swarmed over by Christian-bashers and Amerika-bashers. It's because it is very important to pull the beam out of the Christians' eyes, because they're the ones who are so damn stubborn when you try to tell them how messed up their religion is that they won't listen to anything you say or even look at the offending verses.

But Muslims would listen. They would listen very intently to your criticisms of their religion with great interest. Especially if you were in a Muslim country. You could easily attract a whole crowd of very interested listeners.

 

[Ethnikos]

Do you have a source for that?
Could you tell me how long it took for Islam to be the majority religion of, say, Egypt?
Do you think the Serbians intended to leave the 'vacated' land empty?

That's irrelevant and what, are you the defender of the Arabs, now?
Things are done piecemeal and it takes a long time to completely take over an entire region and that is not what I was talking about anyway.
So, what in the world could your defense possibly be?
Arabs live in that land for no reason and they were just always there? That would be a lie so you skirt around it to trip me up.
You're just wrong and go somewhere else and peddle your wares. I'm not buying.