Why not war against Islam?

[Virus]

Jesus (ie God) did say those things.

Jesus never said that. Prove it.

 

[Taarkin]

Jesus never said that. Prove it.

Uhh, a significant chunk of the OT is about the Israelites conquering rival tribes and building a theocratic empire at the command of God (who Christians believe is Jesus).

 

[Ethnikos]

Uhh, a significant chunk of the OT is about the Israelites conquering rival tribes and building a theocratic empire at the command of God (who Christians believe is Jesus).

Probably a very small minority of Christians would hold that view (Jesus being the God of Israel), such as Oneness Pentecostals. The proper understanding, in my opinion is that an angel was assigned the job of bringing the Hebrews up from Egypt and into the wilderness and to create a nation from them. Out of that nation came a person David, and from him later came Jesus who was the Son of God and he replaced the angel of Sinai as the representative of God, who Jesus explained has never been seen by a man. (of course other than himself, who would have technically not have been a man before being born as a baby to Mary)

 

[Brainache]

Yeah right. World War 1 and 2 were fought over religion. Good one.



Straw man. I said the teaching of Christianity was morally superior. Jesus never said to go and conqueror rival tribes and build a theocratic empire, neither did he do such things by example.

Are you saying that the "Kingdom of God" is not a Theocratic empire?

Technichally I suppose an empire is a bit bigger than a Kingdom, but still some kind of monarchy with the invisible psychotic sky-fairy in charge...

 

[Virus]

Building an empire based on "blessed are the meek", turning the other cheek and being poor sounds like a pretty stupid idea. I wouldn't be very scared of that empire.

 

[Craig4]

Building an empire based on "blessed are the meek", turning the other cheek and being poor sounds like a pretty stupid idea. I wouldn't be very scared of that empire.

Building an empire on the basis of an act no different from throwing a virgin into the volcano to appease the gods is pretty stupid too.

 

[DC]

Because they think Christians and Jews are the common enemy.

who is they?

 

[DC]

Building an empire based on "blessed are the meek", turning the other cheek and being poor sounds like a pretty stupid idea. I wouldn't be very scared of that empire.

oh and a few hours ago you claimed Christianity is Supoerior to Islam, how quickly you changed your opinion.

 

[armageddonman]

Then why not try again?
I do suggest using historical examples -- as many as possible.

Look, I was talking about the mindset of SOME Muslims today and what the reactions of non-Muslims to that are with hindsight regarding Islam's history.

Never mind what evils Christians did in the past. Christianity has been and is being critizized rightfully but why on earth do some people always find it neccessary to construct an tu-quoque when it comes to Islam and come up with those Victorian ideas about the Crusades?

Seriously, the last thing the Muslims can blame the Christians for are the Crusades.

 

[armageddonman]

A question was posed as to why so many Muslims do not seem to understand how the call to enslave the "kuffars" and rape their women tends to arouse something less than warm feelings among the kuffars.

This and only this. Thanks. Sucks if you use your English only in a business environment. You lose your ability to have meaningful conversations.

 

[JJM 777]

if those people took the war to Muslim lands pre-emptively?
(...)
it's a question no Muslim I've talked to has ever been able to give a rational answer to.

The question itself is not more rational than people on the street pre-emptively killing each other, because they might do something evil one day in their lives, so killing or at least imprisoning them is a precaution against that.

Ghetto thinking, anyone?

 

[Fishstick]

Never mind what evils Christians did in the past. Christianity has been and is being critizized rightfully but why on earth do some people always find it neccessary to construct an tu-quoque when it comes to Islam and come up with those Victorian ideas about the Crusades?

Because you are equating an extremist minority within a religious group as sharing the idealogy of the entire religious group. We use examples from christianity to point out how stupid that is.

Do you really think literally every muslim is out to convert the nonbelievers and enslave their women and/or support such actions?

 

[armageddonman]

However, the OP did focus on the ways in which islam leads people to behave badly, and it did raise in my mind the suggestion that islam is worse in this regard than other religions, as well as the suspicion that the OP writer may be coming at this from a christian position. Having done so, I think it is quite fair to address the perceived imbalanced assertion in the OP by pointing out that other religions, especially christianity, have similar beliefs and behaviors.

I'm an atheist.

Why on earth can one NEVER talk about Islam without some people IMMEDIATELY coming out of the wodds shouting "CHRISTIANS DID BAD STUFF TOO! LOOK WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS! CRUSADES WERE EEEEEEEEVIL CHRISTIAN PLOTS TO GRAB LAND AND KILL MUSLIMS!" and try to derail the conversation?

4 pages, seriously you guys.

Seriously.

 

[armageddonman]

Because you are equating an extremist minority within a religious group as sharing the idealogy of the entire religious group. We use examples from christianity to point out how stupid that is.

Do you really think literally every muslim is out to convert the nonbelievers and enslave their women and/or support such actions?

I'm not talking esclusively about those who actually wage Jihad.

Look, in Christiany, you can agree or disagree with pretty much anything that is in the Bible without getting too much trouble for it. That was different in the past of course and it took a long while to get there. Most Christians pretty much agree that while the Bible is the word of their god, it cannot be taken 100% litereally.

Islam on the other hand postulates that while hadeeths are subject to interpretation (that's one reason where the conflicts between the Islamic sects comes from), the Quran is the perfect uncorrupted and uchangeable word of God and questioning ANY part of it is an act of apostasy.

Therefore, while the vast majority of Muslims are nice, peace-loving and normal people, just like me and you, they still adhere to an ideology which in principle requires them to wage war on he whole word until it is subjugated by Islam.

And that together with the history of Islam (and recent events of the last couple of decades) is the reason why a lot of people are suspicious of Islam and Muslims (me NOT included). And I just think that most Mulsims don't realize WHY Islam feels very threatening to many non-Muslims.

In most public debates I have followed, people who are wary of or object to Islam are usually accused of racisim or "Islamophobia" whithout actually aksing the question if there might be a valid reason for those people, even if it might be irrational.

 

[USEagle13]

I'm an atheist.

Why on earth can one NEVER talk about Islam without some people IMMEDIATELY coming out of the wodds shouting "CHRISTIANS DID BAD STUFF TOO! LOOK WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS! CRUSADES WERE EEEEEEEEVIL CHRISTIAN PLOTS TO GRAB LAND AND KILL MUSLIMS!" and try to derail the conversation?

4 pages, seriously you guys.

Seriously.

Because the Holy Roman Empire with all their Knights Templars etc. is somehow deemed by some as the Elite form of Christianity.

It should be called the UnHoly Empire....nothing holy about it. They killed Jesus then somehow magically turned good later. The Holy Empire is nothing more than a model of the kingdom of the antichrist.

That was why Constatine seen a burning cross and KKK used burning cross because as Bobby Bouche's mom would say: "it's the devil"

 

[DC]

I'm not talking esclusively about those who actually wage Jihad.

Look, in Christiany, you can agree or disagree with pretty much anything that is in the Bible without getting too much trouble for it. That was different in the past of course and it took a long while to get there. Most Christians pretty much agree that while the Bible is the word of their god, it cannot be taken 100% litereally.

Islam on the other hand postulates that while hadeeths are subject to interpretation (that's one reason where the conflicts between the Islamic sects comes from), the Quran is the perfect uncorrupted and uchangeable word of God and questioning ANY part of it is an act of apostasy.

Therefore, while the vast majority of Muslims are nice, peace-loving and normal people, just like me and you, they still adhere to an ideology which in principle requires them to wage war on he whole word until it is subjugated by Islam. And that together with the history of Islam (and recent events of the last couple of decades) is the reason why a lot of people are suspicious of Islam and Muslims (me NOT included). And I just think that most Mulsims don't realize WHY Islam feels very threatening to many non-Muslims.

In most public debates I have followed, people who are wary of or object to Islam are usually accused of racisim or "Islamophobia" whithout actually aksing the question if there might be a valid reason for those people, even if it might be irrational.

How do you know this?
most moslems don't agree on that, how is their interpretation wrong and yours right?

 

[USEagle13]

How do you know this?
most moslems don't agree on that, how is their interpretation wrong and yours right?

ummmm. Your most is not true. Let a Pakistani Muslim woman marry a white Christian guy and tak him to Pakistan and see what happens. (You could change Pakistan to any Muslim countrolled country and prove same point) Cause they don't live in Muslim controlled countries in the Mid East. They are western conformists and will be killed just like all of us. Peaceful Muslims is a rather new thing.

Take Bible's to Saudi Arabia much?

 

[DC]

ummmm. Cause they don't live in Muslim controlled countries in the Mid East. They are western conformists and will be killed just like all of us. Peaceful Muslims is a rather new thing.

what? that doesn't make sense.

 

[DC]

can people that belief Peacefull moslems missinterpreted their Koran, pls explain their reasoning?
Why do you interpert the book as meaning they have to wage war on the word?

 

[Fishstick]

ummmm. Your most is not true. Let a Pakistani Muslim woman marry a white Christian guy and tak him to Pakistan and see what happens. (You could change Pakistan to any Muslim countrolled country and prove same point) Cause they don't live in Muslim controlled countries in the Mid East. They are western conformists and will be killed just like all of us. Peaceful Muslims is a rather new thing.

Take Bible's to Saudi Arabia much?

Ah yes this one anecdote about Interracial/interreligious marriage clearly proves that most muslims are in fact plotting to take over the western world and/or steal their wommenz.