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Why not war against Islam?

Toontown said:
Sure, dude. I believe that. You just don't know enough about Islam to criticize it. That's why you never criticize Islam, but always tu quoque around to Christianity on any criticism of Islam, in order to point out Christian hypocrisy. Because you don't know enough about Islam to point out any Muslim hypocrisy.

Yeah. That's it.
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Ah, reading comprehension fail and strawman. Good times.

You sound like you need a hug. Come here, big boy, I'll make you feel better.
 
Bill Thompson said:
We should fight Islam. But we don't because we are cowards.
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Please expand on your comment. What exactly do you seek to do?

Expel or kill all Muslims in the West? Declare war against all Muslim-states and fight them until they surrender and convert or perish in flames?
 
Dayan81 said:
All three of the Monotheistic Faiths were spread by blood & the sword.
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I don't believe that's true of Judaism. I mean, there are certainly instances of them killing others throughout, but it wasn't to spread their faith. I don't believe Jews are particularly concerned with conversion or evangelicalism, and even for those who wish to be Jewish it's difficult to be accepted as a convert.
 
Why not war?

Because you can't kill your way out of a social problem.

Individual problems must be delt with as they present themselves.

If Islam as a group is ever foolish enough to present a unified organized threat to western civilization (don't kid yourself, we ain't there yet) it will be delt with as such.
 
dirtywick said:
I don't believe that's true of Judaism. I mean, there are certainly instances of them killing others throughout, but it wasn't to spread their faith. I don't believe Jews are particularly concerned with conversion or evangelicalism, and even for those who wish to be Jewish it's difficult to be accepted as a convert.
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When Israel was still a powerful kingdom, they often times forced conversion upon those they defeated in battle. I believe the Edomites were an example of this. As were the Canaanites & Phillistines.

But if you are saying that the Jews did not fight wars purely for the purpose of spreading the faith, you are correct.
 
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Complexity said:
I think that Islam, like all religious beliefs, is very silly.

However, I can't let your statement go unchallenged.

'Jihad' is at the heart of islam, but it doesn't mean 'go to war against other people' to most muslims - it means doing battle against some things within one's self, such as fear, hatred, disloyalty, jealousy, and the like.

'Jihad' in this sense is something that every person would benefit from.
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Like Ayan Hirsi Ali, the only "jihad" I would be interested in would be getting my jihad ass out of the crazed armies of the damned without being murdered.
 
armageddonman said:
I've had quite a few discussions with Muslims over the last few years and from what what I learned, Islam teaches (among many other things):

1. Muslims need to spread Islam.
2. Islam is spread by "inviting" the kkuffar to join.
3. If they refuse, they need to be conquered through offensive Jihad.
4. After the conquest, "people of the book" will be second-class citizens with very few rights.
5. Prisoners of war and their female relatives can be sold as slaves.

Now, I know that the vast majority of the Muslims have no abitions to actually go on such a Jihad and the idea that "The West is at war with Islam" is silly but for the sake of the argument, why would anyone who adheres to an ideology which in itself is a declaration of war against anyone who doesn't adhere to it be surprised if those people took the war to Muslim lands pre-emptively?

Not really expecting an answer from anyone but it's a question no Muslim I've talked to has ever been able to give a rational answer to.
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Wow. What a crazy far right-wing Christian fundamentalist extremist you are.

Burn him at the stake.
 
Jihad as a holy struggle against the Infidels, is the narrow interpretation of Islamic-extremists. Most Muslims you talk to about Jihad will tell you that it is a personal struggle that all Muslims should go through, to deal with their inner-demons, personal-trials, or other issues of an individual nature.

Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad have hijacked "Jihad" and Islamophobes have bitten the bate with glee.
 
JudeBrando said:
Wow. What a crazy far right-wing Christian fundamentalist extremist you are.

Burn him at the stake.
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Considering that the title of this thread and the original post are both calling for war against Islam & Muslims, your comment is most appropriate....though slightly off-target.
 
Dayan81 said:
When Israel was still a powerful kingdom, they often times forced conversion upon those they defeated in battle. I believe the Edomites were an example of this. As were the Canaanites & Phillistines.

But if you are saying that the Jews did not fight wars purely for the purpose of spreading the faith, you are correct.
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Perhaps I am mistaken. It was my understanding that contemporary Jews are not concerned with conversion or evangelism, and Jews in general haven't been for a better part of recorded history.

-edit-

This is in the context of the other two Abrahamic traditions, where the means of grace and to a lesser extent the pillars of Islam which use conversion and spreading of faith as a major part of the religion.
 
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dirtywick said:
Perhaps I am mistaken. It was my understanding that contemporary Jews are not concerned with conversion or evangelism, and Jews in general haven't been for a better part of recorded history.
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Yes. Due to their unhappy and unfortunate experiences with proselytizing in Christian Europe, Jews have for the most part given up on conversion.

However, in New York one can often find Hasidic Jews preaching to non-Jews about those laws that Judaism says non-Jews need to obey in order to be in God's favor. You heard me right, Judaism does not require Gentiles convert to Judaism in order to be loved by God. This may be the greatest difference between Judaism and the other monotheistic faiths.
 
Dayan81 said:
Yes. Due to their unhappy and unfortunate experiences with proselytizing in Christian Europe, Jews have for the most part given up on conversion.

However, in New York one can often find Hasidic Jews preaching to non-Jews about those laws that Judaism says non-Jews need to obey in order to be in God's favor. You heard me right, Judaism does not require Gentiles convert to Judaism in order to be loved by God. This may be the greatest difference between Judaism and the other monotheistic faiths.
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I am completely against the Noahide Laws because I enjoy blasphemy and idolatry which would include such things as believing in Jesus and not Yahweh so according to the law, I am to have my head cut off. Very nice of the Jews to save my soul like that.
 
Ethnikos said:
I am completely against the Noahide Laws because I enjoy blasphemy and idolatry which would include such things as believing in Jesus and not Yahweh so according to the law, I am to have my head cut off. Very nice of the Jews to save my soul like that.
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I may be wrong, but I believe that Orthodox Jews consider Orthodox & Roman Catholic Christians to be idolaters while Protestants and others who do not use images or figures of Christ, are not.
 
Dayan81 said:
I may be wrong, but I believe that Orthodox Jews consider Orthodox & Roman Catholic Christians to be idolaters while Protestants and others who do not use images or figures of Christ, are not.
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Well you think wrong and I believe you know better and are another plant.

Edit to add: Moshe Dayan: was an Israeli military leader and politician.

Edit to add more: It seems you have another thread about Christianity where you are building a case for these laws you pretend ignorance of. Pointing out that in fact Christians have laws they are to follow. Next you will be saying how much your Jewish law for gentiles will fit right in. I see you are on this forum for one reason and to weasel your way in and trick people into believing in the reasonableness of your agenda.
 
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JudeBrando said:
Because they think Christians and Jews are the common enemy.
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Yeah, because that line of thinking has done so well for us.

This isn't about whether or not Islam is bad. It's Islam's turn in history to be whacko right now. Christians and Jews have had their turn already. If it weren't Islam it would be something else. The better plan is get away from having one group's stupid little fairy story killing each other over another group's stupid little fairy story.
 
Dayan81 said:
The direct descendants of Christians and individuals raised in the Christian faith, are responsible for 50 million or more deaths during the last century.
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Yeah right. World War 1 and 2 were fought over religion. Good one.

Dayan81 said:
Under the right social & economic conditions, Christians, Jews and Muslims are capable of the exact same quantity & quality of brutal conquest and war-crimes.
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Straw man. I said the teaching of Christianity was morally superior. Jesus never said to go and conqueror rival tribes and build a theocratic empire, neither did he do such things by example.
 
Virus said:
Straw man. I said the teaching of Christianity was morally superior. Jesus never said to go and conqueror rival tribes and build a theocratic empire, neither did he do such things by example.
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Jesus (ie God) did say those things.
 
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