Why not war against Islam?

[A'isha]

Ah, right. I suppose it could be read that way, though none of the commentaries I have mention that one way or the other. It just seems to be a general "You'll be sorry when the Day of Resurrection comes if you're not a believer, so you better convert before its too late!"

 

[DC]

Ah, right. I suppose it could be read that way, though none of the commentaries I have mention that one way or the other. It just seems to be a general "You'll be sorry when the Day of Resurrection comes if you're not a believer, so you better convert before its too late!"

the part i have read sofar is a non stop repetition of the same stuff over and over again, indeed "You'll be sorry when the Day of Resurrection comes if you're not a believer, so you better convert before its too late!"

But the way it was worded didn't sound like we unbelievers should be forced into it or be killed for rejecting it. it seems to clearly indicate free will.
Sure Allah is warning me of his punishment for this rejection, but it all seems to indicate this punishment will come on judgment day, and it impresses me not a bit at all.
Alsong it's only fantasy creatures that treathen me i don't really care.

 

[Toontown]

For ****'s sake and the last time.

I have NEVER advocated to wage war or any other kind of violence against Muslims and I NEVER will do so.

How about actually READING what I wrote?

I mean, is it SO HARD to conduct a simple THOUGHT EXPERIMENT?

Your words, like silent raindrops fall, and echo in the well of silence.

 

[Dayan81]

9-11 required people to be seduced by a religious ideology. It would not have happened without Islam. No human being is willing to kill innocent people and kill themselves unless their minds were rewired by a cult. Jonestown, Wacco and 9-11 have that in common....

You forgot to mention the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Russian pogroms, and probably the Holocaust as well.

 

[Virus]

You forgot to mention the Crusades

Response to Islamic aggression. Do you descend from Europeans? There's a good chance that without the Crusades, you'd be a Muslim.

the Inquisition

Wasn't that bad.

the Russian pogroms

Maybe. That's for you to demonstrate.

, and probably the Holocaust as well.

The National Socialists were a secular totalitarian movement. They invented their own religion based on Nordic Paganism. Nazi antisemitism derived from crackpot scientific theories on race.

 

[DC]

Response to Islamic aggression. Do you descend from Europeans? There's a good chance that without the Crusades, you'd be a Muslim.



Wasn't that bad.



Maybe. That's for you to demonstrate.



The National Socialists were a secular totalitarian movement. They invented their own religion based on Nordic Paganism. Nazi antisemitism derived from crackpot scientific theories on race.

Adolf disagrees.

 

[A'isha]

Response to Islamic aggression. Do you descend from Europeans? There's a good chance that without the Crusades, you'd be a Muslim.

Even in the short term, the Crusades had no effect on the balance of power and the extent (or lack thereof) of Muslim territory. The Reconquista began long before the First Crusade, and by the time of the siege of Vienna by the Ottomans the Crusades were long since over. In fact, the Crusades probably did a lot to hasten the Muslim expansion that culminated in the aforementioned siege, since things like the sacking of Constantinople at the hands of the Crusaders did much to weaken the Eastern Empire, making their eventual demise in 1453 inevitable.

There's a good chance that without the Crusades, Turkey wouldn't be Muslim.

 

[Dayan81]

Response to Islamic aggression. Do you descend from Europeans? There's a good chance that without the Crusades, you'd be a Muslim...

How exactly did the Crusades prevent Europe from becoming Muslim?

Oh, and the Inquisition was quite terrible for Jews, Muslims, and anyone else disliked by the Roman Catholic Church.

You seem to be disregarding, excusing, and minimizing crimes against Jews and others at the hands of Christians. Do you honestly believe the Holocaust could have taken place if not for centuries of Christian-inspired suspicion, jealousy, & hatred of Jews? I can't see how anyone could honestly believe this. The fact is that without Christian Jew-hatred, the Holocaust could not have occured or would have been much more difficult to commit & had a lot fewer willing participants outside of Germany.

 

[Virus]

Crusades bought Europe time.

Mass murder doesn't need religion. The greatest mass murderers in human history were the Communists. Who were atheists that held religion in contempt.

 

[Dayan81]

Crusades bought Europe time.

Mass murder doesn't need religion. The greatest mass murderers in human history were the Communists. Who were atheists that held religion in contempt.

Why are you excusing & disregarding the many horrible crimes committed against Jews & Muslims by Christians?

Not only were tens of thousands of Jews massacred by the Crusaders, but it was the Jews who were in charge of defending Haifa against the Crusader armies.

 

[DC]

Crusades bought Europe time.

Mass murder doesn't need religion. The greatest mass murderers in human history were the Communists. Who were atheists that held religion in contempt.

You are so full of your superiority, amazing handwaving.

 

[Toontown]

Look, Islam isn't peaceful. Islam isn't violent. Islam isn't anything, because "Islam" as a stand-alone entity does not exist. There are only Muslims, and as with any colossal group of individual human beings, they have a diverse range of views on a wide variety of topics, not least of which is just what it means to be a Muslim.

OK. Have you people learned your lesson about criticizing "Islam" yet? Because this will go on for as long as it takes.

Get this straight. There is no "Islam". There are only Muslims, and Muslims are highly individualized. So anything you say about "Islam" is invalid, because it doesn't apply to all Muslims.

Now shut yer yaps and get back to bashing Christianity. Hey, don't look at me. I've done my share of Christianity-bashing.

And one of these days I'm gonna bash me some Islam too. As soon as I can figure out how to get around the lack of Islam's existence.

 

[Dayan81]

...And one of these days I'm gonna bash me some Islam too. As soon as I can figure out how to get around the lack of Islam's existence.

I'm certain that when a Muslim believer comes to the forum and starts bashing Christianity & Judaism while suggesting Islam is perfection incarnate, he/she shall receive a thorough lashing from our local lashers.

 

[Ethnikos]

Why are you excusing & disregarding the many horrible crimes committed against Jews & Muslims by Christians?

Another thing to keep in mind is the Christians killed.
When you say Christian it might be helpful to differentiate the one violent group which is the Roman Church.
Supposedly helping the Christian cause, when they encountered the Orthodox Christians, they killed them too.
Likely the real reason for the Crusades was to get an army close to the Orthodox headquarters in Baghdad, to kill them off to gain control of all Christendom for Rome.

 

[Virus]

I'm certain that when a Muslim believer comes to the forum and starts bashing Christianity & Judaism while suggesting Islam is perfection incarnate, he/she shall receive a thorough lashing from our local lashers.

And you won't step in with your "what about the Crusades" schtick?

 

[Virus]

Adolf disagrees.

I don't speak German.

But on Wikipedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

Scholar of fascism, Stanley Payne notes that fundamental to fascism was the foundation of a purely materialistic "civic religion" that would "displace preceding structures of belief and relegate supernatural religion to a secondary role, or to none at all", and that "though there were specific examples of religious or would-be 'Christian fascists,' fascism presupposed a post-Christian, post-religious, secular, and immanent frame of reference

Boom.

Hitler had a general covert plan, even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war.

Smack.

Other members of the Hitler government, including Rosenberg, during the war formulated a thirty-point program for the "National Reich Church" which included:
The National Reich Church claims exclusive right and control over all Churches.
The National Church is determined to exterminate foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800.
The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible.
The National Church will clear away from its altars all Crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of Saints.
On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf and to the left of the altar a sword.[61

Ow. That's gotta hurt.

From the mid 1930s, anti-Christian elements within the Nazi party became more prominent - they were restrained by Hitler, who thought religion would die by itself as science advanced.]

In your face DC. The Nazis were into weird occult mystical crap and junk scientific racial theories.

I was right and you were wrong.

 

[DC]

I don't speak German.

But on Wikipedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany



Boom.



Smack.



Ow. That's gotta hurt.



In your face DC. The Nazis were into weird occult mystical crap and junk scientific racial theories.

I was right and you were wrong.

Well Hitler said in his speech, Christianity is the Basis of our morals. Also repeatedly he brings up God. the almighty creator. etc etc.

but im reding the sources on the wiki page, sofar they all sound like sorry excuses from Christians.
And this allegedly secret plan stayed secret so the Nazis themself mostly didn't know that, so when the soldiers yelled, "Gott mit uns" they talked about YHWH.

ETA: btw there is no evidence for this alleged secret plan, that is what they assumed was their plan. so much for that.
http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/publications/nazimasterplan01.pdf

 

[DC]

btw i wonder where the Koran esperts are now.

armageddonman?

 

[A'isha]

OK. Have you people learned your lesson about criticizing "Islam" yet? Because this will go on for as long as it takes.

Get this straight. There is no "Islam". There are only Muslims, and Muslims are highly individualized. So anything you say about "Islam" is invalid, because it doesn't apply to all Muslims.

Now shut yer yaps and get back to bashing Christianity. Hey, don't look at me. I've done my share of Christianity-bashing.

And one of these days I'm gonna bash me some Islam too. As soon as I can figure out how to get around the lack of Islam's existence.

Everything I said in my post that you quoted is just as true of Christianity as it is of Islam.

You know, for someone who ostensibly has no problem with "Christianity-bashing", you sure do whine about it a lot. Where were you in that thread where Catholics were called by the slur "Mary-worshippers"? Because I was left by myself trying to defend against and correct that complete misperception, with no assistance from the crowd that's so upset by all the "Christianity-bashing" and "Islam-defending" that's going on around here.

Funny, that.

 

[DC]

the more i read the wicked book, the more i assume that those that claim there is only one real Islam, have never touched the book, and didnt even read the cover i guess. they only know the violent quotes.