Merged Why does Trump lie about EVERYTHING?/Commander in Cheat

[Ranb]

Commander in Cheat

I was reading this article; https://golf.com/lifestyle/celebrities/how-why-president-trump-cheats-golf-playing-tiger-woods/

I used to have this coach who told us, “How you do one thing is how you do everything. You loaf in practice, you’re gonna loaf in the game. You cheat on your tests, you’re gonna cheat on your wife.”

Interesting read to say the least. So I got the book Commander in Cheat. It is funny and tragic at the same time. If it was just about Trump the buffoon, it would be merely funny. But it's about the President of the United States.

Ranb

 

[zooterkin]

Yep.
Our younger members may not know the etymology of “drink the Kool-Aid.” That was Jim Jones.

Sadly, I’ve come to conclude that one can never undrink the Kool-Aid. The majority of Trump followers can never be talked out of their belief in the greatness of President Trump. That’s why some of them talk of taking up arms if Trump isn’t re-elected. In their minds, the only possible reason the greatest president in history doesn’t win in 2020 is voter fraud.

Kool Aid was Ken Kesey, covered in Tom Wolfe’s book. Jonestown was Flavor Aid.

 

[theprestige]

Ooh! Burn!

A non-literal us of the word "everything"

I don't think the thread makes any sense with a non-literal interpretation of "everything."

Trump lies about some things? Okay, I can see that. But then you have a thread asking, "why does Trump lie about some things?"

Which, okay, valid question. But you'd have to look at the specific things you think he's lying about, and answer the question on a case by case basis. He lies about this thing for this reason. He lies about that thing for that reason. Etc.

And that's not the way the people answering the question seem to be interpreting it. All the answers are blanket answers for a blanket scenario.

So I think the question that was asked, and the answers given, are all based on a literal use of "everything".

 

[alfaniner]

Kool Aid was Ken Kesey, covered in Tom Wolfe’s book. Jonestown was Flavor Aid.

And Flavor Flav was the clock-wearing rapper from Public Enemy.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't think the thread makes any sense with a non-literal interpretation of "everything."

Trump lies about some things? Okay, I can see that. But then you have a thread asking, "why does Trump lie about some things?"

Which, okay, valid question. But you'd have to look at the specific things you think he's lying about, and answer the question on a case by case basis. He lies about this thing for this reason. He lies about that thing for that reason. Etc.

And that's not the way the people answering the question seem to be interpreting it. All the answers are blanket answers for a blanket scenario.

So I think the question that was asked, and the answers given, are all based on a literal use of "everything".

I grant youthat the title of the thread is logically impossible. That said, Trump lies about a dozen times daily. The literary license is more than reasonable.

 

[phiwum]

I don't think the thread makes any sense with a non-literal interpretation of "everything."

Trump lies about some things? Okay, I can see that. But then you have a thread asking, "why does Trump lie about some things?"

Which, okay, valid question. But you'd have to look at the specific things you think he's lying about, and answer the question on a case by case basis. He lies about this thing for this reason. He lies about that thing for that reason. Etc.

And that's not the way the people answering the question seem to be interpreting it. All the answers are blanket answers for a blanket scenario.

So I think the question that was asked, and the answers given, are all based on a literal use of "everything".

No, the question is "Why does Trump lie about so many things, including some things that are quite surprising?"

And he does. He draws on weather maps with sharpies. He lies about voter fraud in an election he won (but without a plurality of popular votes). He lies about turnout at his inauguration.

He lies about things of substance and trivial crap too. His lying is remarkable.

Everybody lies about some things. Trump is different. It's hard to come up with topics he doesn't lie about. Maybe if you asked him what time it is, he wouldn't lie. (He has lied about his name, replying he was "John Barron".) There really are few examples of topics where I don't believe he has lied. (He's lied about the weather, for God's sake, saying that the rain miraculously stopped right before he spoke at the inauguration.)

So, please don't pretend that this is a stupid question and that Trump is like everyone else. He lies a lot more than any public or private figure I know.

 

[Delvo]

At the core, Trump has based his life on a misunderstanding of the phrase:" fake it till you make it".
He thinks it means that once you are able to fake doing something it's just like actually doing it.

That is a much bigger component of what defines Trump than most people realize; it's so much of how he looks at life that it applies not only to himself but also to other people.

Back when "The Apprentice" started, when the contestants weren't all "celebrities" yet and the idea was to actually hire one in the end, he showed repeatedly that what he valued most in potential new management employees, not just himself, was not productivity but bluster. Talk of success & achievement & prestige is his entire concept of what success & achievement & prestige are.

I haven't liked a single Republican president of my life time. But I understood their appeal. Trump is truly a despicable human being absent of any redeeming character I can see. I have never seen a single person in my entire life more self centered, more rude and more dishonest...

I don't get it.

Putting aside the dishonesty for a moment, the explanation for his popularity with some people is that there are widespread American subcultures that respect what you're calling "self-centered" and "rude" as good things, more accurately (in their assessment) described not in those terms but as something else like "standing up for yourself/himself/ourselves" and "refusing to let them beat us down anymore". They've spent generations getting more & more beaten down not just economically but also culturally, being the butt of America's jokes and the targets of open disdain & false accusations from every corner of the media & politics. This atmosphere of perpetually being attacked led to a culture of a self-defensive defiant "ya, I am who I am, what are you going to do about it" attitude, so they were going to rally behind anybody famous who popped up in politics on their side displaying that same attitude at around this time. And more recently, with the overall economic situation for the whole country continuously getting worse, that cultural phenomenon has started spreading out from its original demographic confines, gradually getting more common (and thus more politically relevant) not only in rural areas but also suburbs & cities, and not only in the midwest & southeast but also toward the western & northeastern coasts.

Trump himself isn't anything special. He's just the guy who was there to fill in the role that cultural developments involving hundreds of millions of people spent years building up ahead of him. (That's why it bugs me when Democrats talk about the challenge of beating Trump. He's so incompetent at everything that it would be like competing with a three-year-old, if it were actually about him. The problem is that he's not who the Democrats are competing against; they're competing against a large chunk of the population whom many Democrats don't have a clue how to deal with because they've spent their lives somehow unaware of them, or badly misleading each other about them.)

 

[Stacyhs]

You mean Warren Jeffs, right?
Or Robert Jeffress, the sycophant evangelical who is a big Trump supporter.

Yes. I was listing from memory. Oops.

 

[Stacyhs]

My only theory is that he doesn't lie about everything, that you don't believe he lies about everything, and that the only real question is when do you find it expedient to say he lies about everything even though you don't believe it.

The trouble is that Trump lies so often that anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.

Lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie lie......

Get the connection?

 

[Lurch]

My only theory is that he doesn't lie about everything, that you don't believe he lies about everything, and that the only real question is when do you find it expedient to say he lies about everything even though you don't believe it.

Sure. He doesn't lie about EVERYTHING. I doubt the most herculean effort could achieve that. But the sheer volume of his lies, including about things of no great consequence, inspire the kind of incredulity and astonishment that elicit expletive-laden exclamations about his seeming lying about EVERYTHING.

This creature puts into the shade every other politician when it comes to the sheer brazenness and volume of his lying. Whether intended or unconscious, the effect is of an utterly untrustworthy scumbag the entire world regards with a mixture of bemusement and horror.

 

[theprestige]

The trouble is that Trump lies so often that anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.

Lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie lie......

Get the connection?

Sure. He doesn't lie about EVERYTHING. I doubt the most herculean effort could achieve that. But the sheer volume of his lies, including about things of no great consequence, inspire the kind of incredulity and astonishment that elicit expletive-laden exclamations about his seeming lying about EVERYTHING.

This creature puts into the shade every other politician when it comes to the sheer brazenness and volume of his lying. Whether intended or unconscious, the effect is of an utterly untrustworthy scumbag the entire world regards with a mixture of bemusement and horror.

Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.

 

[Stacyhs]

Sure. He doesn't lie about EVERYTHING. I doubt the most herculean effort could achieve that. But the sheer volume of his lies, including about things of no great consequence, inspire the kind of incredulity and astonishment that elicit expletive-laden exclamations about his seeming lying about EVERYTHING.

This creature puts into the shade every other politician when it comes to the sheer brazenness and volume of his lying. Whether intended or unconscious, the effect is of an utterly untrustworthy scumbag the entire world regards with a mixture of bemusement and horror.

Except for ~ 43% of Americans who seem to think he's just fantastic. They don't mind that he's a *****-grabbing, cheating, bullying, narcissistic pathological liar who thinks he has absolute authority and can do any damn thing he wants. Then again, some people like Super Hero movies. I don't understand that either.

 

[Trebuchet]

Except for ~ 43% of Americans who seem to think he's just fantastic. They don't mind that he's a *****-grabbing, cheating, bullying, narcissistic pathological liar who thinks he has absolute authority and can do any damn thing he wants. Then again, some people like Super Hero movies. I don't understand that either.

They think he's a fundy Xian like them (he's not); they think he's an ******* racist like them (he is), they think he'll make life better for them (he won't, unless they are already rich), and they think he's sticking it to those they blame for their problems (he's not). And they think he's just like them. (He's VERY MUCH not.)
And they've been watching Fox News, but have decided it's too liberal and are switching to OANN.

 

[Stacyhs]

Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.

I decide he's lying when the actual facts say he is. You know like "Anyone who wants a test can get one," and he didn't know where the $130K paid to Stormy Daniels came from. What measure do you use?

 

[Trebuchet]

I decide he's lying when the actual facts say he is. You know like "Anyone who wants a test can get one," and he didn't know where the $130K paid to Stormy Daniels came from. What measure do you use?

That the poster in question voted for him.

 

[Lurch]

Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.

When does my *belief* of Trump's lying or not come into it? I evaluate his utterances based on:
- Past utterances of his.
- Things known.
- The fact checking of those in the know.

While everyone has biases, Trumpists do seem to put much greater stock into this belief factor.

 

[phiwum]

Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.

Well, no. The question is why Trump lies so much more than the average person. It was a "why" question.

Obviously, one decides to believe Trump when there's evidence for what he says. When there's no evidence, he has very little credibility -- none, far as I'm concerned. Indeed, his testimony adds no evidence in my estimation. That Trump said X neither counts for nor against the probability that X is true.

(Some will say it counts as evidence against X, but I don't buy that. Sometimes, things that Trump considers useful or pleasant to say happen to be true, sometimes not. That he considers something good to say has no connection to whether it's true or not. It's just white noise.)

Probably, I overstate the case a bit. If he says something that is a plain descriptive claim with no partisan advantage that I can see, then I probably attach some small probability to the claim.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....

He's never been called out on his exaggerations or lies or whatever the correct terms might be; and that's carried over into his presidency.

He gets called out all the time now, he simply hand waves it off. That probably happened to some extent in his past. I think his Baron persona was exposed and he laughed it off or something. His wives probably called him on lies all the time. He divorced 2 of them.

Bottom line, he's been called out. His mind erases such insults to the greatest person to ever live.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Kool Aid was Ken Kesey, covered in Tom Wolfe’s book. Jonestown was Flavor Aid.

I did not know that it wasn't Kool Aid at Jonestown. Kool-aid Acid Test I am very familiar with.

The Atlantic 2012: Stop Saying 'Drink the Kool-Aid' - Beyond being grossly overused and conjuring a horrendous massacre, it's not even technically accurate.

Most of the article revisits what happened at Jonestown. Electric Kool-aid is only mentioned at the end.

After the airstrip murders outside Jonestown, Jim Jones ordered Temple members to create a fruity mix containing a cocktail of chemicals including cyanide, diazepam (aka Valium -- an anti-anxiety medication), promethazine (aka Phenergan -- a sedative), chloral hydrate (a sedative/hypnotic sometimes called "knockout drops"), and most interestingly... Flavor Aid -- a grape-flavored beverage similar to Kool-Aid. We'll get back to that last one in a moment....

... Wolfe's book includes this passage, describing a man who had a bad trip (emphasis added):

"... There was one man who became completely withdrawn ... I want to say catatonic, because we tried to bring him out of it, and could not make contact at all ... he was sort of a friend of mine, and I had some responsibility for getting him back to town ... he had a previous history of mental hospitals, lack of contact with reality, etc., and when I realized what had happened, I begged him not to drink the Kool-Aid, but he did ... and it was very bad."

Because of The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, many Americans were familiar with the idea of being urged to drink Kool-Aid containing, um, unusual chemicals -- even if they hadn't themselves participated in an Acid Test. This familiarity perversely boosted the profile of Kool-Aid, especially in this particular (adulterated) circumstance.

I'm not surprised to find the reference to drinking the Kool Aid preceded Jonestown by several years. I vaguely recall drinking the Kool-aid was about LSD. I think the Jonestown explanation replaced that in my brain.

 

[Trebuchet]

Unfortunately he does NOT just handwave it off. He declares the news media to be "the enemy of the people" and has just today declared the efforts of companies like Google, Facebook, and Twitter to limit content to event some sense of reality to be "illegal".
Oh, and in case you don't believe "Bad Legal Takes", here's the original. Note that he's retweeting extremist idiot Michelle Malkin who, despite Trump's promises to have vaccines by the end of the year has declared she will never take the Gates vaccine. Good. She can just die then.