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Why did the 9-11 Truth Movement fail?

And of course, while my most recent posts are not about 9-11 truth and are instead defending the Palestinians against Israelis onslaught in Gaza and Apartheid in the West Bank, loose change truthers are now attacking me over this thread, and something I posted in 2006.

Guys....really..get your priorities straightened out. They seem to be utterly out of wack.

There are big things happening in this world...and I ain't one of 'em.
 
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Mark6 said:
I gave this some thought, and came up with a fairly depressing answer:

The only reason homeopathy and creationism get more traction than 9/11 TM is that more people are comfortable with them. People believe whatever makes them comfortable. The set of people who are comforted by 9/11 TM (aka "losers with overactive imagination and conviction of being treated unfairly") is relatively small. Far more people are comforted by creationism, and even more by homeopathy. Relative merits of logic have nothing to do with it.

That's all -- depressing as it is.
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A similar line of thought is the Religion is Morphine for the Masses.

The thought of nothing after this life terrifies the vast majority of people on this planet, and as a result, some say, we have religion.

TAM:)
 
dtugg said:
I'm sure that you can prove the 9/11 Commission relied heavily on testimony obtained from torture to describe the al Qaeda plot....................
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The majority of the second or third hand information about the plot in the 911 Commission Report is referenced to KSM. The CIA destroyed the recordings of his "interrogations" but have confessed to torturing him.
 
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JihadJane said:
The majority of the second or third hand information about the plot in the 911 Commission Report is referenced to KSM. The CIA destroyed the recordings of his "interrogations" but have admitted to torturing him.
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So you can't prove any information the 9/11 Commission Report used was gained using torture. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
dtugg said:
So you can't prove any information the 9/11 Commission Report used was gained using torture. Thanks for clearing that up.
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The 911 mystery displays a consistent pattern of deliberate evidence destruction. None of KSM's evidence about the 911 plot would be accepted by a court of law because it is known that he was tortured. The 911 Commission stated explicitly that it didn't aim to meet legal standards of proof. Perhaps this is why it unashamedly used torture-derived "evidence" in telling its story.
 
JihadJane said:
The 911 mystery displays a consistent pattern of deliberate evidence destruction. None of KSM's evidence about the 911 plot would be accepted by a court of law because it is known that he was tortured. The 911 Commission stated explicitly that it didn't aim to meet legal standards of proof. Perhaps this is why it unashamedly used torture-derived "evidence" in telling its story.
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So that must mean that KSM is going free since no evidence against him that could be used against him in a court of law because he was tortured. That must also mean that all the other evidence that could not conceivable have anything to do with his torture should be thrown out because of his torture. Like, for example, the laptop he was found with, and phone calls from him to Atta (I didn't know about the one on 9/10, I thank you and the incompetent guy you call a "well known researcher" for telling me about it).

And I know very well that what testimony from KSM and others used in the 9/11 Commission Report couldn't be used in a US federal court. For one, it would be all hersery, and for two if he asked for a lawyer and didn't get one anything he said right after that would be inadmissible. That doesn't mean it is inaccurate or what he said was gained through torture.

I know that it must be hard for you to do so as a twoofer, but can you think of reason that KSM might have been tortured that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11?
 
dtugg said:
I know that it must be hard for you to do so as a twoofer, but can you think of reason that KSM might have been tortured that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11?
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Sexual gratification?

A photo op?

Runaway US state criminality and disregard for US law?

Stopping the imminent Islamic Fundamentalist ground invasion of the Homeland?

The tired, sorry justifications for torture (usually some variation on the "ticking bomb" myth) do not alter the fact that much of the Commission's 911 plot information could easily be worthless fiction because it emerged from the mouth of a man who had been repeatedly threatened with death if he didn't say the right things.





P.S.:

Your teeny "twoofer"s are funny. :)
 
Mark6 said:
Don't be so modest! :)

"If somebody asks you 'Are you a god?' you say yes!"
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You know, I've said it before, but I think I mean it this time..

I'm done. My work is completed. Mission accomplished.

I've removed my link to the proxy server Ive used to read LC.

See ya around truthers!!
 
JihadJane said:
Stopping the imminent Islamic Fundamentalist ground invasion of the Homeland?
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Yowsa. I guess I'd better re-stock the bunker.

The tired, sorry justifications for torture (usually some variation on the "ticking bomb" myth) do not alter the fact that much of the Commission's 911 plot information could easily be worthless fiction because it emerged from the mouth of a man who had been repeatedly threatened with death if he didn't say the right things.
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Once again, amazingly, we seem to find something we come close to eye to eye on. Torture is beyond the pale, and largely ineffective to boot. By engaging in the practice of waterboarding they have cast an unnecessary shadow of doubt over the whole proceedings. But the fact that this even became public knowledge is another nail in the coffin of the MIHOP angle...even LIHOP. They couldn't keep their usage of waterboarding under wraps from prying journalists. You'd think in seven years a piece of the Impossibly Large Conspiracy would have shaken loose.
 
JihadJane said:
The majority of the second or third hand information about the plot in the 911 Commission Report is referenced to KSM. The CIA destroyed the recordings of his "interrogations" but have confessed to torturing him.
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I certainly accept the idea that KSM was in all liklihood tortured to obtain the information that is attributed to him.

That said , how does that aid the idea that "9/11 was an inside job"?

How does that prove bombs, or thermite, or no-planes, or faked FDR's or WTC 7 demolition or any of the myraid MIHOP contentions?
If it says nothing at all to those contentions by al means say so.

If you contend that this lends credence to the contention of AQ being a fabrication well I am sorry but it does not. All it does is cast doubt on the veracity of KSM's description of AQ. It says nothing whatsoever about whether or not AQ is a fabrication or a group actually manufactured by a gov't (NWO/Mossad/neo-cons/CIA etc.) or gov't agency.

You would still have an extremely long way to go to prove any complicity for 9/11 on the part of any gov't or gov't agency.

This underlines the OP theme. My understanding of why JJ brings this up is that she believes that the fact that KSM was tortured into divulging info and that info obtained via torture can be very unreliable, is proof of gov't complicity in the events of 9/11.

That would be a leap of intuition that simply cannot be supported by logic.
 
jaydeehess said:
I certainly accept the idea that KSM was in all liklihood tortured to obtain the information that is attributed to him.

That said , how does that aid the idea that "9/11 was an inside job"?

How does that prove bombs, or thermite, or no-planes, or faked FDR's or WTC 7 demolition or any of the myraid MIHOP contentions?
If it says nothing at all to those contentions by al means say so.

If you contend that this lends credence to the contention of AQ being a fabrication well I am sorry but it does not. All it does is cast doubt on the veracity of KSM's description of AQ. It says nothing whatsoever about whether or not AQ is a fabrication or a group actually manufactured by a gov't (NWO/Mossad/neo-cons/CIA etc.) or gov't agency.

You would still have an extremely long way to go to prove any complicity for 9/11 on the part of any gov't or gov't agency.

This underlines the OP theme. My understanding of why JJ brings this up is that she believes that the fact that KSM was tortured into divulging info and that info obtained via torture can be very unreliable, is proof of gov't complicity in the events of 9/11.

That would be a leap of intuition that simply cannot be supported by logic.
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Patsy.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
They couldn't keep their usage of waterboarding under wraps from prying journalists. You'd think in seven years a piece of the Impossibly Large Conspiracy would have shaken loose.
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Excellent point. And one that will undoubtedly be ignored by our resident Truthers.
 
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RedIbis does not know what he is saying. He uses one-word nonsense answers to avoid responsibility and the burden of proof.

When RedIbis gives one-word nonsense answers, he is being a troll. You shouldn't bother responding; that only encourages him.
 
RedIbis said:
I don't know who that is, nor do I pretend to know the motives of torturers. Are you prepared to eliminate the possibility that the US gov't has the capability and motive to use patsies?
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She is a character called Patsy from a TV show called Absolutely Fabulous.

I won't rule out the possibility of (small 'p') patsies, I only rule out the need to torture them.


ETA: L337- I know. I'm bored and tying RI in knots is fun.
 
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Stop bickering, please.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero
 
RedIbis said:
Patsy.
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Once again, and I think this illustrates the abject failure of the 9/11 Truth Movement to accomplish anything substantial, if KSM being set up as a patsy is even remotely possible, why aren't they defending him?

Are you prepared to let an innocent shwarma merchant go down for the single greatest act of terrorism in human history?

If you really and truly believe he's a patsy, you'd be defending him.
 
My top three reasons for why the 9/11 Truth movement failed:

3) They claim to know what happened (inside job!) while calling for a new investigation to figure out what happened.

2) They call themselves "truthers" yet they tell really obvious lies all the time.

1) They refused to keep it simple.

"Islamic terrorists attacked America and the government let it happen either by design or through incompetence."

Had they gone with that from day one they'd currently be in much better shape. But LIHOP isn't exciting enough for them.

Instead they decided to present a conspiracy that is so pointlessly complex and ridiculous that it doesn't even make sense to truthers themselves!
 
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