Why did God create the tree of knowledge?

[scribble]

Re: Re: Why did God create the tree of knowledge?

I don't detect an emotion of fear. I detect a simple, rational decision-making process. Are those who buy various kinds of insurance or install various kinds of safety devices in factories guilty of being fearful?

Fear:
A reason for dread or apprehension: Being alone is my greatest fear.

Dread:
To anticipate with alarm, distaste, or reluctance: dreaded the long drive home.

I think fear fits. You don't. Fine - it's semantics. We both agree that Gods saw the possibility that Man could achieve the Gods' level of power, and They decided to kick him out of the Garden pre-emptively.

Your point is what?

I wasn't trying to make a point; it's just that that passage is one of the passages where it clearly refers to plural Gods making the decision to throw Adam and Eve out.

I wasn't making a point, I was only stating the obvious.

 

[Iacchus]

Here is an article that sheds more light on this subject:
Tower of Babel
http://www.varietygalore.com/page/page/1236521.htm

Thanks for the link!

No, I don't think God has anything to fear from man. The angels in heaven perhaps? (i.e., those who have died and gone to heaven). Quite possibly. But this is why God sees to it that heaven is protected from man and his folly.

 

[scribble]

Glad to hear it! ... It's just a label anyway.

If you only wear your religion as a label, you're as bad as I accused you of being.

Holy Bible? Wait a second, isn't that just a bit of leap of faith for you?

It says right here, "Holy Bible." :shrug:

Yes, but aren't you one of those who claim the Bible is full of discrepancies?

Full? As in leaving no room for anything else? No. I am among the number that believes the Bible contains discrepancies, right along with every Christian Bible scholar who's ever actually read the Bible.

I Am that I am ...

Blasphemer.

 

[scribble]

Here is an article that sheds more light on this subject:
Tower of Babel
http://www.varietygalore.com/page/page/1236521.htm

That link seems to leave this verse completely, and totally unaddressed:

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

What on Earth could THAT mean... ?

Oh yeah, exactly what was said: God again sees that Man is going to achieve His level of power if left unchecked.

 

[scribble]

The angels in heaven perhaps? (i.e., those who have died and gone to heaven).

Maybe if you studied your religion for a change, you would know that angels are not "those who have died and gone to Heaven." They were, in fact, created quite seperate from Man, and are a different class of being altogether.

 

[Iacchus]

If you only wear your religion as a label, you're as bad as I accused you of being.

No, you don't know who I am ...

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. ~ Revelation 2:17

It says right here, "Holy Bible." :shrug:

Does the sun not also shine in the desert? ... where the state of Israel is by the way? Indeed, appearances can be deceiving.

Full? As in leaving no room for anything else? No. I am among the number that believes the Bible contains discrepancies, right along with every Christian Bible scholar who's ever actually read the Bible.

Are you saying the only way a person can find God is by reading the Bible? By the way, which Bible did Abraham refer to?

Blasphemer.

Hairlip ... Hairlip ...

 

[Iacchus]

Maybe if you studied your religion for a change, you would know that angels are not "those who have died and gone to Heaven." They were, in fact, created quite seperate from Man, and are a different class of being altogether.

And what makes you the expert? Is this something you read in a book?

 

[scribble]

No, you don't know who I am ...

And you don't know who I am - yet at every turn you have misrepresented me. Here, I make no misrepresentation of you, you're the one who said it's merely a label.

Does the sun not also shine in the desert? ... where the state of Israel is by the way? Indeed, appearances can be deceiving.

And?

Are you saying the only way a person can find God is by reading the Bible? By the way, which Bible did Abraham refer to?

No, and none.

Hairlip ... Hairlip ...

Yet I do not have a hairlip - and yet you have blasphemed.

 

[scribble]

And what makes you the expert? Is this something you read in a book?

The Holy Bible. Try it, you'll like it.

(hint: screw a hint. Read the Bible. )

 

[Iacchus]

Just a couple of ideas about angels here ...

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. ~ Matthew 22:23-32

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. ~ Revelation 19:6-10

 

[scribble]

Just a couple of ideas about angels here ...

Where?

Why don't you look up something actually about angels. Here's some stuff off the top of my head -- I know in Ezekiel somewhere, God describes the angel's pre-existence. I know in ... Jude, maybe (I could look to see if I'm right, but why don't YOU go do some work now) there is a passage to comfort the bereaved that explains the new eternal life of the recently deceased as being "like an angel."

"That supports me!" you yell. No it doesn't, go study.

 

[Iacchus]

What's the difference between an angel and a son of God? ... And I don't mean Jesus. Would you like me to show you some references to that?

 

[scribble]

What's the difference between an angel and a son of God? ... And I don't mean Jesus. Would you like me to show you some references to that?

No. I'd like you to stick to your point. You said angels are ex-humans.

I'm still waiting for you to provide even a lick of evidence for that claim.

Still waiting...

 

[Doctor X]

Scribble:

I am sure you realize you are wasting your time.

This individual has been given references and citations from the OT texts yet chooses to ignore them because he does not like what they actually say.

--J.D.

 

[scribble]

Scribble:
I am sure you realize you are wasting your time.

Yeah...

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31121

I never listen to myself.

 

[Doctor X]

Oh my . . . I missed that thread.

You exposed lifegazer as a moron . . . bad man! Bad man! I wish you into the Cornfield!!

--J.D.

 

[scribble]

Full? As in leaving no room for anything else? No. I am among the number that believes the Bible contains discrepancies, right along with every Christian Bible scholar who's ever actually read the Bible.

Iacchus, take a look at Radrook's thread about Hume and Christianity. Radrook is an example of what I'd call a thinking, respectful Christian.

Not a wanna-be-Sophist blasphemer with no point to make.

You could learn something. I've already learned some things in my study to debate Radrook. I learned nothing in my posts to you.

 

[plindboe]

Are you asking me to spice things up a bit?

Not sure what you mean, I simply quoted the passage to show that you were contradicting Genisis.

A robotic Adam would have been an imperfect Adam.

But he was imperfect since we know that he did eat the fruit

What you are saying is that God created a robot.
If so, then God would have programmed that robot with the inability to disobey.
But Adam did disobey.
So he wasn't a programmed automaton.

I didn't say he was a robot. The Bible says he didn't know good from evil before he ate of the tree. To not know good from evil is not being a robot. Do you consider animals to be robots for instance?

Adam expressed appreciation for Eve when he poetically waxed melodic in appreciation for her company. There is absolutely no evidence which justifies your casting suspicion on his behavior.

BTW
The Bible also doesn't say that Adam never flew by flapping his arms, urinated molten gold, or preferred to eat elephant manure for supper. Such things remain unsaid because the readers of normal intelligence are expected to come to a reasonable conclusions without constantly being reminded of everything that is not directly said.

Notice I said "maybe". That means I acknowledge the possibility, but doesn't imply anything at all. You were the one that assumed something that was not mentioned in the Bible, not me.

That is an impossibility.
There is no feeling in nonexistence.
Yet you do know that the absence of sense perceptions is not a condition that you prefer to be in. You also know that once you had no such perceptions because you were as yet not conceived or born.

That doesn't make the choice to non-exist evil.

Things need not be said in order for one to conclude.
If so then philosophy would not have developed very far.

There's a difference between reading the obvious between the lines, and filling out with free fantasy of what one prefers the story to be like.

In court, when a person is accused of a crime based on evidence, the person is considered innocent of crime until proven guilty. You seem to prefer not to consider Adam innocent until proven guilty. even though there is no evidence to indicate that he did anything wrong to Eve. Why?

That someone is considered innocent until proven otherwise doesn't make the accused innocent.That a proces is held in the first place is because the "innocent" might not be innocent afterwards. If the accused is truly believed to be innocent there would be no need to hold a trial at all.

I don't choose.
I am guided.
I let the Bible itself idicate how things are to be undserstood.

The entire story cannot be symbolic because Jesus and his Apostles refer to it as historical fact.

Biblical Reverences to Genesis as Historical Fact.
http://www.varietygalore.shoppingcartsplus.com/page/page/1083181.htm

That they mention Adam and Eve and the Eden, doesn't make it a historical fact, but can just as easily be references to a symbolic story.

Maybe you did.

Revelation 12
9 The dragon was thrown down. He was that old snake who is called the devil and Satan. He fools all the people in the world. He was thrown down to earth and his angels were thrown down with him.

WE


Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

KJV

That is not the only incident where an angel uses an animal as a puppet.

Thanks for providing those. I can see now that the conclusion isn't too bad.

God placed the tree in the Garden in order to give man an opportunity to demonstrate his appreciation for his creator by voluntarily being an obedient respectful son.

Ah, thanks, this makes sense. I wonder though, if you believe in God's omniscience, then God already knew when placing the tree, that Adam wouldn't be the obedient respectful son. So he didn't give him an opportunity but set up the conditions knowing that Adam would fail.

 

[plindboe]

That sounds like a Homer Simpson question. "If pork chops are high in saterated fat, then why did scientists create the pig?" Maybe the hypothetical tree was hypothetically created to provide shade or to provide wood for furniture.

A normal tree could have filled those needs. There was a reason for the tree being created, the question is what that reason was. The best answer is that he wanted to test Adam and Eve, but that doesn't really fit the omniscience idea.

I have no idea. You might as well ask why there's so much hydrogen in the universe. Hydrogen bombs are dangerous. Wouldn't the world be a safer place if hydrogen were a very rare element?

I'm asking about a story that makes little sense to me. I'm not talking about the real world here.

Why do foods that are high in sugar and fat taste good?

Because we evolved in a world where food was scarce, so food with a high level of energy was necessary for our survival. But again, I'm not talking about the real world here, I'm talking about a story.

Maybe the moral is that we should learn to judge things by their true essence rather than by mere appearances. Jesus said, "Clean the inside of the cup." Here the cup is a metaphor for the person. The inside is a metaphor for the real you.

So God made the deadly tree beautiful because he wanted a story with a nice moral. That seems rather odd, I must say.

It sounds like a trap. Why put real cheese in a mousetrap?

It was real cheese. Why did God make that attractive piece of cheese in the first place, that's what I'm asking.

If you had adolescent children and you found out that they were trying to learn how to manufacture counterfeit money, then wouldn't you be concerned?

Counterfeiting money is a crime. Why was it a crime having knowledge, that's what I'm asking?

You have really made some poor analogies. Try harder, thanks.

 

[Iacchus]

No. I'd like you to stick to your point. You said angels are ex-humans.

I'm still waiting for you to provide even a lick of evidence for that claim.

Still waiting...

Evidence? What kind of evidence? I've already provided two good passages which, is two more than you have.

Whereas all I can say, as much as I hate to speculate on the matter, if there were angels before Adam and Even, then there must have been other lifeforms in the Universe which are like us. So, if in fact we were created in God's image, like the Bible says, then it's very plausible that other beings like us could exist as well.