Who started both World Wars?

[SanityGap]

Enterprise and Yorktown were delivering fighters to wake and Midway. You can see their trips here. Note that Enterprise was almost back to Pearl, she was actually due in on Saturday, but weather delayed her. Of course, FDR ordered that weather so as to save the carriers.


Stinnett is a stone cold liar.

I've been asking him about the Enterprise for a while as rebuttal to the "they sent them away" story.
I guess I'll have to find something else now

 

[dafydd]

Amusing as it is watching the Lying Dutchman make a lul of himself,has not this thread passed it's sell by date?

 

[Tolls]

Anybody can drop a link to 4 meters worth of text.
I first would like to know if the 'dropper' understands what he drops.
Matter of efficiency.

That's rich, coming from the man who singularly fails to understand anything he reads.

Only Roosevelt knew.

Show us the documents then. Come on, you must have the reference numbers on you since you're so sure of all this.

 

[9/11-investigator]

From the Dorn report:

Admiral Kimmel's mission was to prepare for offensive operations against Japan.

Mind you, that was before PH. Thanks Gawd, with enemies like you, nobody needs friends.

 

[SanityGap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_debate



No one is seriously expecting that the American state will implicate itself, right?
Hiroshima, destruction of Japanese cities, liquidation of the Japanese empire, all our making.

Sorry for that.

Ridiculous.

Of course not. Good 'ol Uncle Sam was minding it's own business and all over sudden, out of the blue, these gooks attacked. For no reason at all. A nation with a GBP 10 times as small as that of the US. PH was first, Milwaukee next. Everybody knows that!

Sigh.

I like this phrase though:


Only Roosevelt knew.

Funny, you missed this quote from the same article.

"In any case, the eventual flow of intercepted and decrypted information was tightly and capriciously controlled to the point at times even President Roosevelt did not receive information from code-breaking activities. (This was in part due to fears of compromise as a result of poor security, after a memo dealing with MAGIC was tossed in the wastebasket of Brigadier General Edwin M. (Pa) Watson, the President's military aide.[14] Also see the Harris article [15] for more detail and a broader perspective.)"

Now why would that be?
You do know that the article you quoted from debunks a lot of your claims? You did read it, right?

 

[9/11-investigator]

Tellingly still not a peep about the memorandum from Congress, 2000:

http://www.kimmelfamily.net/Husband3.htm

Does not fit into the pattern for my opponents.

 

[9/11-investigator]

"In any case, the eventual flow of intercepted and decrypted information was tightly and capriciously controlled to the point at times even President Roosevelt did not receive information from code-breaking activities. (This was in part due to fears of compromise as a result of poor security, after a memo dealing with MAGIC was tossed in the wastebasket of Brigadier General Edwin M. (Pa) Watson, the President's military aide.[14] Also see the Harris article [15] for more detail and a broader perspective.)"

Yawn.

At times he did not receive, most of the other times he did receive.

You are really desperate, back against the wall, is it not?

This quote btw confirms that Roosevelt was indeed the spider in the info web.

 

[Rich_C]

For our discussion it is irrelevant if the Americans knew about Yamamoto's plans in january. The discussion point is if the Roosevelt government willingly sacrificed more than 2000 of it's own men in order to get into war.

I take this as an admission that you lied. The Americans did not know about any plans to attack PH in January.

You admit that diplomatic codes were broken. That means that the US gov was aware of what was going on in Japan and the decision to declare war on the US weeks before December 7. You are aware that Roosevelt was maneuvering for the Japanese to fire the first shots (Congress and the American population were the real targets, remember?). From Stimsons diary it becomes clear that the US gov was expecting an attack any day. So how on earth could they be surprised about the attack of PH?

The Americans expected the Philippines to be attacked first. They thought the Japanese did not have the capability to attack multiple targets at the same time, and it's necessary to take the Philippines before moving on to their main target, the Dutch East Indies.

But the most important consideration is not if the the Roosevelt gov did know about the location of the Japanese fleet days before December 7, but that they willingly maneuvered into war anyway. That becomes clear from the implementation of the oil embargo and the discussion of the coming war in the White House with Stimson. That is all you need to know about the intentions of the US government. They were looking for war.

Anybody who wants to deny that?

Since Japan had invaded China and French Indochina, and even skirmished against the USSR before the oil embargo, it's pretty obvious that the Japanese wanted war. The Americans could either keep supplying all the oil they needed to continue their conquests and implicitly support the Japanese conquests, or cut off the oil supply and hope they would pull back. Yes, I'm sure Roosevelt knew this risked war, but objectively and morally it was the correct choice.

 

[Tolls]

Tellingly still not a peep about the memorandum from Congress, 2000:

http://www.kimmelfamily.net/Husband3.htm

Does not fit into the pattern for my opponents.

All of that stuff applied to the Phillipines as well.
They didn't get any extra information.
And yet they were more prepared than Pearl.

Can you guess why?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody can drop a link to 4 meters worth of text.
I first would like to know if the 'dropper' understands what he drops.
Matter of efficiency.

I got a copy of the Dorn Report mailed to me the day it was released, so it could go on the Internet. I understand it. I'll not regurgitate it for the lazy.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

From the Dorn report:



Mind you, that was before PH. Thanks Gawd, with enemies like you, nobody needs friends.

That's the military's job, sonny. He would not have commenced offensive operations against Japan until ordered to do so. Nice quote mining, however. Shows you're just a weak in the history as ever.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yawn.

At times he did not receive, most of the other times he did receive.

You are really desperate, back against the wall, is it not?

This quote btw confirms that Roosevelt was indeed the spider in the info web.

He got what was important for his mission.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tellingly still not a peep about the memorandum from Congress, 2000:

http://www.kimmelfamily.net/Husband3.htm

Does not fit into the pattern for my opponents.

You're not my opponent, you're the subject of a discussion. The Dorn Report answers any questions about Kimmel's status. You should read it some time.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've been asking him about the Enterprise for a while as rebuttal to the "they sent them away" story.
I guess I'll have to find something else now

Kimmel ordered the carriers out, he set the timing and the missions. DC just said "do this", they didn't specify how it was to be done.

 

[uke2se]

The 3 videos I linked to showed Walter Post, a historian and he spoke about PH.
The first speaker was Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof, a retired Bundeswehr General and he wrote a book about the events leading to the war with Poland. The second speaker is Stefan Scheil and discusses Barbarossa. He is a freelance historian, meaning he has some room to move and speak his mind. But he is a trained historian.

If the two "historians" are of the same caliber as Schultze-Rhonhof, one can safely say that they aren't very good historians. One might even call them liars if that is the case.

Wrong. He wrote a book titled 'The war that had many fathers', implying that the war had not one father, be it Poland or Germany. The press in Germany defends the Zionist line of WW2 as the 'good war'. We are moving on from that point of view now that the West is committing suicide on the basis of WW2 lies.

In that book he blames especially Poland for the war, so I wasn't wrong at all.

 

[9/11-investigator]

All of that stuff applied to the Phillipines as well.
They didn't get any extra information.
And yet they were more prepared than Pearl.

This stuff by nature did not apply to the Phillipines:

and the degree to which the commanders of the United States forces in Hawaii were not alerted about the impending attack on Hawaii was directly attributable to the withholding of intelligence from Admiral Kimmel and Lieutenant General Short.

 

[9/11-investigator]

That's the military's job, sonny. He would not have commenced offensive operations against Japan until ordered to do so. Nice quote mining, however. Shows you're just a weak in the history as ever.

Really, I can assure you that the Dutch military at the moment is not preparing an assault on anybody, not even as a rehearsel.

You guys have a funny way of dealing with your best oil buyers.
Japan in no way harmed America, yet Kimmel is preparing for military action against Japan.

"That's the military's job, you see"

Wonderful.

Proves my point that the US is a warmongering entity. Always has been.

 

[9/11-investigator]

In that book he blames especially Poland for the war, so I wasn't wrong at all.

I see, you as a self-professed non-German speaker, just finished the non-existing english translation of the book.

You are a miracle, you really are!

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Really, I can assure you that the Dutch military at the moment is not preparing an assault on anybody, not even as a rehearsel.

You guys have a funny way of dealing with your best oil buyers.
Japan in no way harmed America, yet Kimmel is preparing for military action against Japan.

"That's the military's job, you see"

Wonderful.

Proves my point that the US is a warmongering entity. Always has been.

Well, that made no sense at all. But seeing as how you're quote mining and not reading the material it's understandable.

 

[9/11-investigator]

He got what was important for his mission.

And what according to you was Roosevelt's mission, other than bringing the US in a war with Japan and as a consequence with Germany, the main price?