Who started both World Wars?

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9/11-investigator said:
Really, I can assure you that the Dutch military at the moment is not preparing an assault on anybody, not even as a rehearsel.

You guys have a funny way of dealing with your best oil buyers.
Japan in no way harmed America, yet Kimmel is preparing for military action against Japan.

"That's the military's job, you see"

Wonderful.

Proves my point that the US is a warmongering entity. Always has been.
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So, the ABDA forces didn't do anything offensive? I guess I should ask you for a list of battles they didn't fight.
 
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About 1,000 intercepted Japanese naval radio messages formed the basis of each Daily Summary written by Rochefort and his staff. The Japanese communication intelligence data contained in the messages was summarized and delivered daily to Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific Fleet. Rochefort's summary of November 25, 1941 (Hawaii time) was not to Kahn's liking. It revealed the Commander Carriers of the Imperial Japanese Navy were not observing radio silence but were in "extensive communications" with other Japanese naval forces whose admirals directly commanded the forces involved in the Pearl Harbor attack. Because of the International Dateline, the "extensive communications" mentioned in the summary took place on November 26, 1941, Japan time, the exact day the Japanese carrier force began its journey to Hawaii.
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Well, well, well:

[165] Communication Intelligence Summary, 25 November, 1941

General.-Traffic volume normal. Receiving conditions much improved over
last two days. Tokyo personnel bureau active with messages to various
units. Tokyo originated one UNI WIWI to CinC. Combined Fleet, CinC.
Second Fleet CinC. Third Fleet, CinC. Fourth Fleet and CinC. French,
Indo China Force plus Yokosuka, Kure and Maizuru. The Navy Minister
originated several AlNavs. A Direction Finder Net, controlled by Tokyo
radio was active with secret calls being sent by the five stations. The
entire fleet traffic level is still high which leads to the conclusion
that organizational arrangements or other preparations are not yet
complete.

Combined Fleet.-Little activity by CinC. First Fleet. CinC. Second Fleet
remains highly active as an originator, addressing Third Fleet, Air
Forces and South China units. A Second Fleet unit and a submarine
division or squadron arrived in Takao communication zone today.
Crudivision Seven which previously arrived there has been associated
with Destroyer Squadron Three which indicates the presence of that unit
in Takao vicinity. Palao and Second Fleet still exchanging messages. Two
new units to be associated with CinC Second Fleet and the Task Force now
forming are the North China Fleet and Defense Division One.

Air.-Through the identification of a call made today Genzan Air Corps
has been in Saigon since the eighteenth. We believe that other units of
the Combined Air Force have moved from Taiwan to the French Indo China
Area although this is not yet verified. One or more of the Carrier
Divisions are present in the Mandates.

Fourth Fleet.-CinC. Fourth Fleet is still holding extensive
communications with the Commander Submarine Fleet, the forces at Jaluit
and Commander Carriers. His other communications are with the Third,
Fourth and Fifth Base Forces.
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Gawdzilla said:
Stinnett HATED FDR, you maroon. Did you even read what his posted before justifiably dying of ALZ.
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With the useal charm our American friends are known for, especially in Dresden, Hiroshima and the torture dungeons of the CIA, again Gawd steps into a dog turd:

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2005/12/07/day-of-deceit/

while in fact the man who proved the case is no Roosevelt-hater, but the furthest thing from it.
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If you have trouble understanding this, just ask.
 
9/11-investigator said:
I see, you as a self-professed non-German speaker, just finished the non-existing english translation of the book.

You are a miracle, you really are!
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Nein11 being, of course, completely unaware of the fact that a book synopsis can be found in English. Ignorance is bliss.
 
Not that we need Stinnett for this perception of FDR being in the know of the impending attack and LIHOP-ed it.

Take Pullitzer price winner John Toland:

http://www.amazon.com/Infamy-pearl-harbor-its-aftermath/dp/042509040X/ref=pd_sim_b_5

He says the same thing.

And here is a newer book from ca. 2006:
http://www.amazon.com/Pearl-Harbor-Myth-Unthinkable-Controversies/dp/1597971618/ref=pd_sim_b_2

What Victor presents is old news for some. For those many others some revelations might include: (a) many offiicers are named who openly pointed to Pearl Harbor as the Japanese target, (b) the true reason Admiral "JO" Richardson was replaced, (c) that British DIP traffic was being read by the Japanese, (d) more than adequate resources, on a world-wide basis, to handle Japanese traffic (DIP and IJN), adding to what SRH-149 and SRH-255 already shows (d) highly competent deliberations and high-level decision-making to mask pending attack from Kimmel and Short, (e) the woes that were visited upon DugOut Doug and why, (f) FDR's personal quest to save Stalin and USSR, (g) whereabouts of FDR and his War Cabinet the night of December 6, 1941, ..., etc.

Today, as recent books such as Stinnett and Wilford have found their mark, the indefensible positions of "maintained absolute radio silence" and "could not read any of the IJN operational traffic" are clearly apparent. The current "fall back" position being pandered is akin to "noise" or a bureaucratic maze that interferred with actionable intelligence reaching the Washington decision-makers. Victor's text is the "Closing of the Door" on those excuses.
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Well, well, well, "FDR's personal quest to save Stalin and USSR", what a surprise? Roosevelt as America's own Stalin! Roosevelt was a commie Jew, but I repeat myself. America side by side with through thick and thin with their brothers in arms, the largest mass murderers in history, in their combined effort in bring the Old World Order down (Europe). I am almost sure that the last discovery about WW2 will be that there was a line of communication between Stalin and Roosevelt about bringing about the Final Solution of Europe. Roosevelt's government was 'riddled with Soviet spies'... or were they simply assigned to the post in the full knowledge of their loyalties? The world has been fooled by Hollywood in thinking of Americans as a bunch of John Wayne's, but in reality an American is ideal bureaucracy material, armed with a small set of words (racist, sexist, antisemite, bigote) armed with which he goes after the rest of the world. What do you say dudalb? :D Were not these proletarian jeans ever anything else than a successful answer to the Mao-suit of former fame?

WW2 was a war of the world's resenters (Americans + Soviets) against Europe, all in the name of 'progress', a concept embraced both by Soviets as well as Americans.

Rectification: the Perry expedition was in 1895, not in 1853.
 
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From Amazon and the book by Stinnett:
http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299

From Publishers Weekly

Demolishing the myth that the Japanese fleet maintained strict radio silence, he shows that several Japanese naval broadcasts, intercepted by American cryptographers in the 10 days before December 7, confirmed that Japan intended to start the war at Pearl Harbor.
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This is the core issue.

This explanation suits me and my purposes fine and unless you have compelling evidence to the contrary, I am going to stick with it.
 
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9/11-investigator said:
From Amazon and the book by Stinnett:
http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299

From Publishers Weekly



This is the core issue.

This explanation suits me and my purposes fine and unless you have compelling evidence to the contrary, I am going to stick with it.
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Well, that settles it, doesn't it. A reviewer for a magazine thought the author of a book demolished some claim or other, and that's the highest standard of scientific scrutiny, isn't it?

:D
 
9/11-investigator said:
I think you like to call people liars for no reason at all. That's because you people like to smear. Sure sign of second hand character.

I got it from people more knowledgeble than you:
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I didn't call you a liar, I said you lied. Maybe you think that makes no difference, but I was commenting on your actions, not your character.

Your response is funny. It has been shown that the Japanese didn't have a plan to attack Pearl Harbor until Summer 1941, but you AGAIN quote a source that says the Americans knew Pearl Harbor was being attacked in January 1941. Most people (like 99.9%) would acknowledge this means the source that has incorrect information is suspect. You decide the rest of the world is just wrong.

There is no point commenting on the Philippines. Why wouldn't the Americans believe the Philippines would be attacked first? Have you ever looked at a map of the Pacific?


9/11-investigator said:
Interesting, it was the US which opened up isolationist Japan somewhere around 1853, I believe (Perry). Under the other Roosevelt Japan was even encouraged at some point to invade Manchuria. It is just like with Saddam, first he shakes hands with Rumsfeld, next they hang him. Sure, the rape of NanKing was a crime (30,000) but it dwarfs as to what the US did (on a pretext) in Iraq and Afghanistan (hundreds of thousand killed)

Now America has military bases in more than 100 countries (not for long btw) just like the soviets, now defunct. I think it is the morally correct thing to kick you out of these places? We will remember that.
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30,000 at Nanking? More like 300,000.

You think Theodore Roosevelt encouraged Japan to invade Manchuria?
Teddy won the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating PEACE between Russia and Japan in 1905.
Teddy Roosevelt was no longer USA President after 1909.
Teddy Roosevelt died in 1919.
Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931.
I'd like to see how you twist that into Teddy Roosevelt got Japan to invade Manchuria.

You can't compare US military bases to Japan's invasion of China. That's just silly on the face of it. Most of those countries could kick the USA out if they wanted (I'll grant you that's not true for Cuba).
 
9/11-investigator said:
Rectification: the Perry expedition was in 1895, not in 1853.
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You get wrong even when you get it right.

In 1852, Perry embarked from Norfolk, Virginia for Japan, in command of the East India Squadron in search of a Japanese trade treaty. Aboard a black-hulled steam frigate, he ported Mississippi, Plymouth, Saratoga, and Susquehanna at Uraga Harbor near Edo (modern Tokyo) on July 8, 1853. His actions at this crucial juncture were informed by a careful study of Japan's previous contacts with Western ships and what could be known about the Japanese hierarchical culture. He was met by representatives of the Tokugawa Shogunate who told him to proceed to Nagasaki, where there was limited trade with the Netherlands and which was the only Japanese port open to foreigners at that time (see Sakoku).
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9/11-investigator said:
My guess would be that the US still wanted to win the future war with Japan and for that task it needed these carriers. And these carriers were indeed essential in the victory over Japan.
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Except that in 1941 most of the leadership in the USN thought the battleship was the primary weapon of naval warfare. It was the same in the IJN, most still believed the battleship was the primary weapon—why else build superbattleships like the Yamato class? Even Yamamoto himself, for all his enthusiasm for carriers, still sometimes thought in battleship terms.
 
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