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Moderated What's wrong with porn?

Belz... said:
I don't know. I would think that most people would rather not let their sex acts be filmed and published. Of course, unlike Southwind, I won't say that what I think necessarily reflects reality.
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Yes, for some strange reason it takes balls to show conviction these days. I think it must be linked to political correctness!
 
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins
Surely you have some serious research data to back up this claim, yes?
You wouldn't be making that claim solely on the base that you're "really really sure", no?

Or that you've talked to a "lot of women" who hate the idea of working as porn stars.... because then we have to ask you "how much is a lot of women?". You do know you're making a broad generalization which should apply to all women on planet earth, do you?

The only part you keep avoiding in this discussion is the issue of statistical evidence.
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Southwind17 said:
Oh, here we go. Another example of somebody who's taken leave of his ability (if it ever existed) to realize something blatantly obvious to most other people without resorting to a scientific calculator!
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So you are indeed basing your claim solely on the base that you are "Really really really sure" then.

Not much of a skeptic, are you?.

(Seriously, SW, that has got to be one of the lamest attempts at trying to get away with making a claim without doing the actual homework of providing the evidence, that I have seen in a long time)
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Southwinds mistake is thinking that even because 90% or more of people would not be confortable with doing something, it does not mean that there is something wrong with those who are confortable doing it.
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Where did I make that "mistake" (this is starting to become repetitive).
 
Southwind17 said:
A=B and A=C so B=C, correct? So your answer to the following question must be yes, then:

Is that correct?
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It doesn't matter. If porn is not low status, your argumentation fails because it is based on a wrong premise. If porn is low status, your premise is correct, but your argumentation fails because -- as I showed by substituting another low status profession -- your conclusion (porn stars have low self-esteem) doesn't follow from the premise (most people don't want to work in porn).


OK, so answer me these, then:
  1. Why is being a trashman a low-status profession (i.e. why do not many people want to do it)?
  2. Why is being a greeter at Walmart a low-status profession (i.e. why do not many people want to do it)?
  3. Why is being a porn star a low-status profession (i.e. why do not many women want to do it)?
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I don't know and I don't care. Some mixture of historical reasons, cultural mores, the degree of skill and training required and how well they pay.

Meaning what, exactly, in the case of a porn star? [pulls another tooth!]
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Why are you asking me? It was your line of argument that started with the premise. You're the one talking about porn stars as if they're a special case, so why don't you tell us how that profession having a low status differs from how other professions -- say, garbage collecting or grace digging -- have low status? (Besides the obvious reason that you really don't know and don't have an argument, I mean.)
 
Southwind17 said:
OK JFrankA, I'm prepared to indulge your infantile tactics just this once, to make a point (simply because it's so easy), notwithstanding that your direct transpositions, which you seem to believe you're mockingly deploying like a child with a bag of cheap fake critters, and to similar effect, are actually completely illogical (I've edited your quotes slightly just to remove errors):

I'm keen for you to show where I actually said that.
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Fine:

Southwind17 said:
Makes sense. Would you seriously hook up with a girl who's getting reamed regularly by dozens of desparados (by which I mean darned lucky bastards!)?
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JFrankA said:
I would. Why not?
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Southwind17 said:
Risk of disease? Knowing that your girl has low esteem and sees sex as a loveless act?
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Your words. Porn star = low esteem and porn stars see sex is a loveless act.

Complete and utter assumption on your part. That's where YOU said it.

Southwind17 said:
If you were to ask a representative sample of "regular" women, i.e. those who would detest the idea of them of being a porn actress, what proportion, approximately, do you think (rightly or wrongly) would claim that they would have to have very low self-esteem to entertain such vocation?
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Your words again: "Regular" women would detest the idea of them being a porn actress. "Detest" is a strong word. I call that an assumption.

So you believe that "making love" means the same thing to your girl, who has just come home from being abused byhaving sex with a dozen John Does, as it does to most other "monogamous" women? It's not a case of whether or not somebody is prepared or even happy to do something in their own time because they do it for a living, it's a question of what it then means to them, and you, of couse. So I don't think it's fair to compare a car mechanic with a porn actress in this context. A car mechanic fixes his own car of an evening because it needs fixing, just like those he gets paid to fix. The motivations for having sex in front of a camera and with your fella when you get home are very different. Don't you think the intimacy and selectivity of sex with your partner would be diminished if your partner was a porn actress?
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A very leading question.

And I do think it's fair to compare a car mechanic with a porn actress in this context. You are putting assumptions right out there, without an explanation why and assuming everyone agrees with you.

Sorry. I don't. And you have done nothing to try to understand why. All you did was ridicule me simply because I refuse to say that my opinion is a fact, and possibly because I don't agree with you.

What proportion of the female population are porn stars compared to the average woman? (by "regular" I mean your "average" woman). Please don't ask me to define "average". If I have to do that for you then you're a lost cause (if not already).
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But it's your job to define it, because you are making that assumption. Otherwise you are blowing smoke and assuming that everyone thinks like you.

Now if you had said "it is my opinion that the average woman wouldn't do porn" that's a completely other story. You didn't do that. You made claims that women in porn have "low esteem", don't consider sex as something loving with their own partner, and is not a "regular" women, I disagree, that's fine. But what you are doing is toting an opinion as a fact. I am calling you on it.

Well, that was easy, albeit completely pointless. Now, where was I ... ?
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You were pontificating. Continue.
 
And also, as someone mentioned, even if you actually had statistical evidence to demonstrate that most women wouldn't even think of the idea of performing at porn, that still does not say anything about wether pornography is inherently bad. A lot of people would probably not want to perform in a film where they have to bathe in a pool of earthworms, but there's nothing inherently bad or immoral about it.

Of course, since you're claiming to be the partial interviewer who doesn't take any position and who's supposedly here just to read people's opinions, I'm guessing your claim is not against porn.

Your only claim here so far seems to be that "most women in the world hate the idea of acting at porn" (Which you have allowed yourself the permission of making without any statistical evidence other than "it's just obvious", because clearly you can tell just by looking in their eyes, and you have by now seen the eyes of more than 50% of the women on the planet).

Then again, you claim to have no bias against porn, so your insistence that most women hate the idea of doing porn seems to have no point.
 
JFrankA said:
Hey, it's weapons that you are giving me.
Interesting how you never ever answer a question.
Leif Roar answered your questions, why haven't you answered mine?
Further, why haven't you answered his?
You don't answer questions, you tell us we miss the point, you won't discuss, and you tote your beliefs and opinions as facts. When someone says I'm not going to say that I believe as truth, you ridicule.
You are no interviewer. An interviewer discusses and debates. You do neither.
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What - no mockery? Surely not - must be subtly hidden in there somewhere (even though I've removed all the spaces between the lines!). Sweet.
 
Southwind17 said:
I think you missed these: "?" (interviewer!)
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Knowing that your girl has low esteem and sees sex as a loveless act?

Knowing that your girl is proud of her body and really enjoys giving pleasure to others especially to you?

Does the "?" really make a difference?

A good interviewer doesn't ask leading questions.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
(Seriously, SW, that has got to be one of the lamest attempts at trying to get away with making a claim without doing the actual homework of providing the evidence, that I have seen in a long time)
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Seriously, that comment doesn't surprise me, coming from you (nothing personal).
 
Leif Roar said:
It doesn't matter. If porn is not low status, your argumentation fails because it is based on a wrong premise. If porn is low status, your premise is correct, but your argumentation fails because -- as I showed by substituting another low status profession -- your conclusion (porn stars have low self-esteem) doesn't follow from the premise (most people don't want to work in porn).
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:confused:

Leif Roar said:
I don't know and I don't care. Some mixture of historical reasons, cultural mores, the degree of skill and training required and how well they pay.
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That's a conveniently vague response. Is that just fluke, or are you really pretending that you don't appreciate why I asked the question?!

Leif Roar said:
Why are you asking me?
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Because you're the one who introduced the term "low-status profession", and understanding what that actually means to you is central to understanding your position. Should I consult somebody else, do you think?! :rolleyes:
 
Southwind17 said:
Seriously, that comment doesn't surprise me, coming from you (nothing personal).
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It shouldn't surprise you at all, especially when you make bamboozling ridiculous claims and then pretend that we're gonna buy your cheap attempts at trying to get away without providing the evidence. Yup, you'll be seeing that a lot. One day, maybe, you will learn something and change your approach.
 
Southwind17 said:
Because you're the one who introduced the term "low-status profession", and understanding what that actually means to you is central to understanding your position. Should I consult somebody else, do you think?! :rolleyes:
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And you're the one who introduced "low esteem" and "regular women detest doing porn". And understanding what that actually means to you is central to your purpose as to why you are asking the question. Hiding behind "I'm being an interviewer" is a cop out. I suggest you learn how to be a proper interviewer.

Should we be interviewed by someone else, do you think?
 
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Porn, Porn, it's good for your dick, the more you watch, the more it sticks, so watch your porn with every meal!
 
arthwollipot said:
Now I like a bit of porn (although I have a vast preference for simple nudie pics over hardcore sex), but as soon as I start to get an impression that the participant is not enjoying it, I get immediately turned off. Now, this impression may not actually be accurate - some people may just be really good actors - but I don't find the idea of people doing porn against their will to be at all appealing.
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Whenever I see porn where the girl is being mistreated, even though I know it's arranged, I just get an urge the punch the guy(s) in the face.
 
Southwind17 said:
Oh, here we go. Another example of somebody who's taken leave of his ability (if it ever existed) to realize something blatantly obvious to most other people without resorting to a scientific calculator!
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It's called asking you to put your money where your mouth is. Plenty of claims are made in the name of common sense.
 
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