Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[Southwind17]

You know, Eric, when I blatantly mock someone like that, using their own words against them, and they A) don't see it, and B) claim superiority, it just makes the mocking all the more sweeter.....

And when one can't even recognize whether one is mocking or seeking to make, justify or strengthen one's case but proceeding to shoot oneself in the foot instead under the guise of mockery? Would that be sweet or sour, sir?!

 

[quixotecoyote]

And when one can't even recognize whether one is mocking or seeking to make, justify or strengthen one's case but proceeding to shoot oneself in the foot instead under the guise of mockery? Would that be sweet or sour, sir?!

For goodness sake JFrank, slow down. I think Southwind's starting to short out.

 

[JFrankA]

I'm still keen to hear Leif Roar's rationale for selecting "low-status profession" as the comparator with being a porn star. Does Leif Roar consider that being a porn star is a "low-status profession"? Does Leif Roar consider that "low-status profession" have something in common with that of a porn star? If so, I wonder what Leif Roar would offer as that commonality. Leif Roar? Anybody?

I'm still keen to hear Southwind17's rationale for saying that all porn stars have "low esteem" as comparator to women in other professions. Does Southwind17 consider that the only women in porn have "low esteem"? Does Southwind17 consider that all women who have "low esteem" have something in common with that of a porn star? If so, I wonder what Southwind17 would offer as that commonality. Southwind17?

I'm still keen to hear Southwind17's rationale for saying that women who don't want to be a porn star are "regular" as a comparator to women who do. Does Southwind17 consider that women in porn are not "regular"? Does Southwind17 consider that all women who are not "regular" have something in common with that of a porn star? If so, I wonder what Southwind17 would offer as that commonality. Southwind17?

 

[JFrankA]

For goodness sake JFrank, slow down. I think Southwind's starting to short out.

Sorry, can't help it. When someone likes this gives me so many weapons, I have to use them...

 

[Belz...]

I don't have any links to scientific studies proving that water is wet, but I'm sticking w/my opinion on that one too. No offense, but I honestly don't care if you believe/agree with me or not.

I'll take that as a "I don't have any", then.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't have any links to scientific studies proving that water is wet, but I'm sticking w/my opinion on that one too. No offense, but I honestly don't care if you believe/agree with me or not.

Actualy water is wet by definition. Hence oil is not technicaly wet.

 

[Belz...]

I think women WOULD love to be porn stars if:

I don't know. I would think that most people would rather not let their sex acts be filmed and published. Of course, unlike Southwind, I won't say that what I think necessarily reflects reality.

 

[Belz...]

If you were to re-word that slightly (but importantly) to mean what I think you intend it to mean, namely: "I don't know whether women, generally, would love to become a porn star or not.", then I can assure you I do, and the answer is "no".

Ah! Excellent. Now all you need to do is present your evidence.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't know. I would think that most people would rather not let their sex acts be filmed and published. Of course, unlike Southwind, I won't say that what I think necessarily reflects reality.

Also that just because most people would not like to do X, it does not mean there is anything wrong with X. Most people do not want to play tabletop RPG's, that does not make those who do into abnormal individuals.

I am confortable asserting that a majority of people and likely a significant majority of people would not be confortable filming their sex acts and publishing them in any fashion. I might be wrong, but I am confortable enough in that assertion.

Southwinds mistake is thinking that even because 90% or more of people would not be confortable with doing something, it does not mean that there is something wrong with those who are confortable doing it.

 

[Leif Roar]

I'm still keen to hear Leif Roar's rationale for selecting "low-status profession" as the comparator with being a porn star.

*snort* I was mirroring your line of reasoning to show that it was flawed. As your reasoning started by asserting that being a porn star had low status[1] it wouldn't make any sense to use a high status profession for the counter-example.

[1] (In effect, if not quite by definition, a low status profession is a profession that few people want to have)

Does Leif Roar consider that being a porn star is a "low-status profession"?

Sure. It is a profession that has low status in society.

Does Leif Roar consider that "low-status profession" have something in common with that of a porn star?

That question doesn't even make sense. Being a porn star doesn't "have something in common" with low status professions, it is a low status profession. So's being a greeter at Walmart.

If so, I wonder what Leif Roar would offer as that commonality. Leif Roar? Anybody?

The fact that they all have low status. D'uh.


Really, who do you think your deliberate obtuseness is fooling? You're blowing smoke. We've seen it before, it didn't fool us then and it doesn't fool us now.

 

[Southwind17]

Sorry, can't help it. When someone likes this gives me so many weapons, I have to use them...

What a shame you're firing blanks!

 

[quixotecoyote]

What a shame you're firing blanks!

Not altogether a bad problem to have in the porn industry.

 

[BenBurch]

Not altogether a bad problem to have in the porn industry.

AIM can help you get that operation...

 

[JFrankA]

What a shame you're firing blanks!

Hey, it's weapons that you are giving me.

Interesting how you never ever answer a question.

Leif Roar answered your questions, why haven't you answered mine?

Further, why haven't you answered his?

You don't answer questions, you tell us we miss the point, you won't discuss, and you tote your beliefs and opinions as facts. When someone says I'm not going to say that I believe as truth, you ridicule.

You are no interviewer. An interviewer discusses and debates. You do neither.

 

[JFrankA]

I don't know. I would think that most people would rather not let their sex acts be filmed and published. Of course, unlike Southwind, I won't say that what I think necessarily reflects reality.
Also that just because most people would not like to do X, it does not mean there is anything wrong with X. Most people do not want to play tabletop RPG's, that does not make those who do into abnormal individuals.

I am confortable asserting that a majority of people and likely a significant majority of people would not be confortable filming their sex acts and publishing them in any fashion. I might be wrong, but I am confortable enough in that assertion.

Southwinds mistake is thinking that even because 90% or more of people would not be confortable with doing something, it does not mean that there is something wrong with those who are confortable doing it.

See, I can see and understand the point of view Belz and Poundering Turtle are making.

I tend to believe that a lot of people would enjoy working in porn if the conditions I listed were met (and add one I've forgotten: that viewers would find them sexy). I base that on what I've heard from people who aren't in the business (yes, I know quite a few who aren't), what they feel about it, and also things like "Girls Gone Wild" and Sexting, etc, etc add to my opinion.

But this is all based on simply my opinion, my experiences, my observations and my conditions on what a porn star is. No hard evidence and real hard facts at all.

Southwind17, if you want to say I'm wrong because of your opinion is based on something else, that's fine and I'll be the first to say that my opinion could very well be wrong, and I'm willing to discuss and debate that.

However, if you are going to state that your opinion is a fact, without any proof, without any data, without even any experience then I call shenanigans.

I refuse to say that my opinion is a fact. If you want me to state a for a fact that the "regular" women won't do porn or will do porn, then I'm going to say I don't know because I don't have the hard data.

If you are going to call that "shooting blanks" and/or "not enough 'civvy'" then your point is more dull than mine is.

 

[Southwind17]

*snort* I was mirroring your line of reasoning to show that it was flawed. As your reasoning started by asserting that being a porn star had low status[1] it wouldn't make any sense to use a high status profession for the counter-example.

[1] (In effect, if not quite by definition, a low status profession[A] is a profession that few people want to have)

Sure. It is a profession that has low status in society[C].

A=B and A=C so B=C, correct? So your answer to the following question must be yes, then:

Don't you agree that most women taken from a cross section of society would deplore the idea of beingnot want to be a porn actress?

Is that correct?

That question doesn't even make sense. Being a porn star doesn't "have something in common" with low status professions, it is a low status profession. So's being a greeter at Walmart.

OK, so answer me these, then:

1. Why is being a trashman a low-status profession (i.e. why do not many people want to do it)?
2. Why is being a greeter at Walmart a low-status profession (i.e. why do not many people want to do it)?
3. Why is being a porn star a low-status profession (i.e. why do not many women want to do it)?

The fact that they all have low status. D'uh.

Meaning what, exactly, in the case of a porn star? [pulls another tooth!]

 

[ponderingturtle]

See, I can see and understand the point of view Belz and Poundering Turtle are making.

I tend to believe that a lot of people would enjoy working in porn if the conditions I listed were met (and add one I've forgotten: that viewers would find them sexy). I base that on what I've heard from people who aren't in the business (yes, I know quite a few who aren't), what they feel about it, and also things like "Girls Gone Wild" and Sexting, etc, etc add to my opinion.

But this is all based on simply my opinion, my experiences, my observations and my conditions on what a porn star is. No hard evidence and real hard facts at all.

I can think of several reasons why you might not have an unbiased sample in this regard.

 

[JFrankA]

I can think of several reasons why you might not have an unbiased sample in this regard.

And I would agree with you. Completely. And I'm willing to debate my opinion on this, maybe change my mind if there is a convincing argument. That's part of why I am here.

Again, what I object to is the fact that Southwind17 has his own biased opinion himself, yet he totes it as a fact. I refuse to do that to my opinion.

 

[ponderingturtle]

And I would agree with you. Completely. And I'm willing to debate my opinion on this, maybe change my mind if there is a convincing argument. That's part of why I am here.

Why though? We both agree that the percentage of people who would choose to do so is irrelevant.

 

[Southwind17]

OK JFrankA, I'm prepared to indulge your infantile tactics just this once, to make a point (simply because it's so easy), notwithstanding that your direct transpositions, which you seem to believe you're mockingly deploying like a child with a bag of cheap fake critters, and to similar effect, are actually completely illogical (I've edited your quotes slightly just to remove errors):

I'm still keen to hear Southwind17's rationale for saying that all porn stars have "low esteem" as comparator to women in other professions.

I'm keen for you to show where I actually said that.

Does Southwind17 consider that only women in porn have "low esteem"?

No.

Does Southwind17 consider that all women who have "low esteem" have something in common with that of a porn star?

No.

If so, I wonder what Southwind17 would offer as that commonality. Southwind17?

n/a

I'm still keen to hear Southwind17's rationale for saying that women who don't want to be a porn star are "regular" as a comparator to women who do.

What proportion of the female population are porn stars compared to the average woman? (by "regular" I mean your "average" woman). Please don't ask me to define "average". If I have to do that for you then you're a lost cause (if not already).

Does Southwind17 consider that women in porn are not "regular"?

Of course, by definition (see above).

Does Southwind17 consider that all women who are not "regular" have something in common with that of a porn star?

No.

If so, I wonder what Southwind17 would offer as that commonality. Southwind17?

n/a

Well, that was easy, albeit completely pointless. Now, where was I ... ?