Merged What's happening in the Middle East?

[9/11-investigator]

Mubarak has apparently fled Egypt with his sons...

Not Mubarak, but his wife and children.
Any source for this rumour?

Read the same on a Dutch forum

Het gerucht gaat inderdaad dat de zoon van Hosni Mubarak met zijn gezin naar Engeland is, samen met zijn moeder.
---------
De Sjah is destijds ook met zijn gezin gevlucht. Weet u nog wat de Perzen voor hem in de plaats kregen?

Son and wife. These kind of rumours can be fatal for Mubaraks rule, even if untrue. Same scenario as with the Shāh of Persia.

Few people understand that there is only one alternative for these 'secular muslim oppressors', namely 'fundamentalist muslim oppressors'.

It looks like Egypt could indeed be the next domino:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,741712,00.html

And if Egypt falls, the entire Maghreb will fall. One big Caliphate.

Suez canal in fundamentalist hands. We are living in interesting times indeed, as the Chinese proverb goes.

We in Europe should intensify our efforts in completing Northstream.
And be very kind to Putin or else buy a very warm coat.

 

[FireGarden]

The Daily Mail also cites Akhbar al-Arab and says it is Gamal Mubarak who has gone to London:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...olice-sprayed-water-cannon-Cairo-streets.html

It is believed that the Egyptian president's son, who is considered as his successor, has fled to Britain along with his family.

The plane with Gamal Mubarak, his wife and daughter on board left for London yesterday from an airport in western Cairo, the U.S. based Arabic website Akhbar al-Arab said.

Has the Times of India story changed? Or did I misread it before? They also say Gamal Mubarak:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...amily-flee-to-Britain/articleshow/7365922.cms


Suzanne Mubarak is Hosni Mubarak's wife:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Mubarak

But the reports of her being seen at Heathrow are only via twitter.

 

[9/11-investigator]

But the main prize of course will be not Egypt, not Saudi-Arabia, not Algeria, but Turkey, the entity with the largest potential of becoming the leader of the muslim world in a now rapidly evolving multi-polar post-American world order.

'Greater Turkey' reaching from Istanbul via Azerbidjan, all these Stan's, deep into China. Hundreds of millions. Looks like the heritage of Ataturk will soon be dismantled.

Poor Israel. Exodus 2.0

 

[9/11-investigator]

After all we should not forget that Hezbollah took power in Lebanon recently. Another domino.

 

[WildCat]

So you're pro-dictatorship when the dictators are more enlightened than the masses they rule?

In this case the dictators are actually teaching their populace to be ignorant backwards bigoted fundamentalist totalitarians, and in the case of Saudi Arabia exporting this philosophy far and wide. It's already bearing fruit in Pakistan, as the Saudi-built madrassas churn out class after class of Taliban fighters.

IMHO it's just a matter of time before Saudi Arabia explodes in civil war, and it's going to be ugly.

 

[9/11-investigator]

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/?id=3.1.1591050596

The jet with Mubarak, his family and 97 pieces of luggage on board left for London on Tuesday from an airport in western Cairo, according to the US-based Akhbar al-Arab.

Does not look like Gamal is going to London on a shopping spree.

Unless of course these suitcases were empty. Don't think so.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Would you rather Saudi Arabia remains as it is, or would you rather an Al-Qaeda takeover?

Al-Qaeda does not exist. What exists is muslim fundamentalism. The good news is, even muslim fundamentalist regimes need money and hence will sell oil.

 

[FireGarden]

The report is denied:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20029614-503543.html

President Hosni Mubarak's family has not fled Egypt's rising, deadly political protests, an U.S. Embassy source in Cairo tells CBS News.

 

[JihadJane]

That's 25% of the world's irreplaceable oil supplies there. America doesn't rely on it that much but other countries do and America needs strong foreign markets.

The US is very dependent on Saudi Arbia because it is OPEC's swing producer for oil. Iraq is the only other country that has enough oil to serve this function. Saudi Arabia is also crucial to keeping oil tied to the dollar.

You'd hand that over to totalitarians that hate your guts without a fight? Big mistake. You'd forever be known as "The President that handed over a 25% of the world's oil supplies to people that hate our guts." Furthermore, by allying with all the governments of the Middle East, stability can be maintained by providing an umbrella of mutual deterrence, and a greater amount of diplomatic pressure can be used with allies rather than threats of force.

If you disagree, that's fine but you've got to consider why America actually allies with these regimes. It isn't just to be mean to people.

No, it's to retain regional hegemony


The US had it own oil. It burned it. Tough. The world's oil doesn't belong to the US.

And if Egypt falls, the entire Maghreb will fall. One big Caliphate.

Paranoid rubbish

 

[Thunder]

Paranoid rubbish

 

[gumboot]

In this case the dictators are actually teaching their populace to be ignorant backwards bigoted fundamentalist totalitarians, and in the case of Saudi Arabia exporting this philosophy far and wide. It's already bearing fruit in Pakistan, as the Saudi-built madrassas churn out class after class of Taliban fighters.

It's a bit more complicated than that in Pakistan. The madrassahs in Pakistan are teaching Deoband Islam, no Wahhabism. You can be forgiven for mistaking the two because they're practically identical, the main difference being that Deoband Islam developed in Pakistan itself (at the time, India), and that Deoband Islam adheres to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence while Wahhabism is Hanbali.

Basically in the 18th Century a cheery Pathan Indian chap by the name of Syed Ahmad went to Arabia and there become pals with the Wahhabist. He took this ideology back to India, meshing it with the harsh tribal codes of the Pathans, and developed something virtually identical to Wahhabism. The Hindustani Fanatics he founded were a thorn in the British side for centuries (the so-called "Sepoy" Mutiny was more accurately one of the Hindustani Fanatics' many attempts to reject British rule) and ultimately led to the formation of Pakistan.

In 1866 descendant followers of Syed Ahmad founded a madrassah in Deoband, India, dedicated to spreading the ideology he had founded. This became the Deoband Islamic movement.

Today, Pakistan has about 10,000 Madrassah, and of these, at least 7,000 are teaching the fundamentalist Deoband strain of Islam, turning 1.2 million Muslim men into future extremists. In the early 1970s, the Deobandi could claim only 40% of Pakistani madrassahs as their own. Today it's over 70%.

And as WildCat points out, Saudi Arabia, recognising the close ties between Wahhabism and Deoband, is helping bank roll the entire operation.


P.S. This is happening in a country with nuclear weapons. Just dwell on that for a moment.

 

[boyntonstu]

It's a bit more complicated than that in Pakistan. The madrassahs in Pakistan are teaching Deoband Islam, no Wahhabism. You can be forgiven for mistaking the two because they're practically identical, the main difference being that Deoband Islam developed in Pakistan itself (at the time, India), and that Deoband Islam adheres to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence while Wahhabism is Hanbali.

Basically in the 18th Century a cheery Pathan Indian chap by the name of Syed Ahmad went to Arabia and there become pals with the Wahhabist. He took this ideology back to India, meshing it with the harsh tribal codes of the Pathans, and developed something virtually identical to Wahhabism. The Hindustani Fanatics he founded were a thorn in the British side for centuries (the so-called "Sepoy" Mutiny was more accurately one of the Hindustani Fanatics' many attempts to reject British rule) and ultimately led to the formation of Pakistan.

In 1866 descendant followers of Syed Ahmad founded a madrassah in Deoband, India, dedicated to spreading the ideology he had founded. This became the Deoband Islamic movement.

Today, Pakistan has about 10,000 Madrassah, and of these, at least 7,000 are teaching the fundamentalist Deoband strain of Islam, turning 1.2 million Muslim men into future extremists. In the early 1970s, the Deobandi could claim only 40% of Pakistani madrassahs as their own. Today it's over 70%.

And as WildCat points out, Saudi Arabia, recognising the close ties between Wahhabism and Deoband, is helping bank roll the entire operation.


P.S. This is happening in a country with nuclear weapons. Just dwell on that for a moment.

Summarizing your post:

A branch of Islam called the Deoband Islamic Movement is presently educating 1,200,000 males to become extremists.

Is this contrary to the statement made by the President, that Islam is a religion of peace?

(Is it possible to be a peaceful extremist?)

 

[Thunder]

Is this contrary to the statement made by the President, that Islam is a religion of peace?

Do you agree that Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians casts doubt on the idea that Judaism is a religion of peace?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Summarizing your post:

A branch of Islam called the Deoband Islamic Movement is presently educating 1,200,000 males to become extremists.

Is this contrary to the statement made by the President, that Islam is a religion of peace?

(Is it possible to be a peaceful extremist?)

1. So, you're judging Islam as a whole by one particularly stupid sect? Even going by your numbers, that's 1.2 million people in a muslim country with 170 million people, and out of a global muslim population of 1600 million. That's 0.7% of the population of Pakistan, and 0.075% of the total number of Muslims.

Judging the whole Islam by what 0.075% of them do, is akin to judging US christians by what the Amish do. (The Amish are actually around 0.08% of the US population by the latest estimates.)

2. You're using "extremist" as an opposite of "of peace." What that sect actually teaches is fundamentalists. Only a fraction of fundamentalists will actually be opposed to peace or do anything violent. By way of comparison, the USA has Christian fundamentalists as a much larger percentage of its population and they didn't... oh, wait, they did cause a couple of wars, didn't they?

So, Christianity is a religion of peace, huh?

Engage the brain, then try again.

 

[Thunder]

Its interesting how right-wingers don't understand how their constant attacks against all Muslims and Islam, makes the war on terror sooo much more difficult.

Demanding that the Muslim world assist the West in the fight against Islamic extremist terrorists, while at the same time insulting and offending Muslims, is not a very smart strategy.

 

[DC]

1. So, you're judging Islam as a whole by one particularly stupid sect? Even going by your numbers, that's 1.2 million people in a muslim country with 170 million people, and out of a global muslim population of 1600 million. That's 0.7% of the population of Pakistan, and 0.075% of the total number of Muslims.

Judging the whole Islam by what 0.075% of them do, is akin to judging US christians by what the Amish do. (The Amish are actually around 0.08% of the US population by the latest estimates.)

2. You're using "extremist" as an opposite of "of peace." What that sect actually teaches is fundamentalists. Only a fraction of fundamentalists will actually be opposed to peace or do anything violent. By way of comparison, the USA has Christian fundamentalists as a much larger percentage of its population and they didn't... oh, wait, they did cause a couple of wars, didn't they?

So, Christianity is a religion of peace, huh?

Engage the brain, then try again.

wouldn't you have to brake that up per age. they are schools. so you would have to use only population going to school and not total population.

 

[DC]

considering only 1,349,000 Pakistani enrolled for higher education and more than 1.2 million people being brainwashed with some wicked BS doesn't look to good for the future.

 

[bigjelmapro]

What's with this obsession with %'s? As if this has been a solid argument in the first place.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

That's 25% of the world's irreplaceable oil supplies there. America doesn't rely on it that much but other countries do and America needs strong foreign markets. You'd hand that over to totalitarians that hate your guts without a fight? Big mistake. You'd forever be known as "The President that handed over a 25% of the world's oil supplies to people that hate our guts." Furthermore, by allying with all the governments of the Middle East, stability can be maintained by providing an umbrella of mutual deterrence, and a greater amount of diplomatic pressure can be used with allies rather than threats of force.

If you disagree, that's fine but you've got to consider why America actually allies with these regimes. It isn't just to be mean to people.

I support democracy. I guess we disagree.

 

[Virus]

I support democracy. I guess we disagree.

I support it as well. But if it came down to a choice between autocracy and totalitarianism, the first is the lesser of two evils.