What Really Happened on 9/11?

True. Cheney, Halliburton and their cronies are making money from the Katrina disaster but they didn't cause the hurricane. Evil and vile folks such as them will always jump to profit from the misery of others. I must however state that I am convinced that the war in Iraq was preplanned and provoked to make profit for Halliburton and other Cheney, Bush friends.
Could be, we've discussed this in depth and I've yet to see much evidence for it. That is not to say that oil wasn't a consideration for this war. I think it very likely that it was. But as has been pointed out before there were many other ways Bush could have made his friends rich beyond belief. One was simply to make an agreement with Saddam that would give exclusive rights to America for rebuilding Iraqi oil infrastructure which was to be undertaken by German and French interests.
 
So much woo, so little time....

Why did NORAD not do their job on that one day?
You'll have to be more specific to get an answer to that one.

Why did the President not do anything when he was told planes were flown into the WTC?

Likely because no one was expecting it to happen. If he had already been prepared with a plan THAT might be evidence of a conspiracy.

Why did Larry Silverstein rent out the complex just before it was destroyed?

Because renting the complex is his job. Why WOULDN't he?

What about the put options on the different airlines stock?

I'll let Snopes handle this one.

What about the FBI confiscating tapes of the Pentagon attack?

Why did WTC7 collapse? Other buildings were damaged more than that one, yet it collapsed perfectly onto itself. Don't believe me?

Because it was showered with flaming debris from the other buildings. As for why it fell and others didn't, why do things like that happen in any disaster? Why does one building fall in an Earthquake and the one next to it survive? Why does an airplane crash and one guy die and the guy next to him live? Ever hear of a thing called 'random chance'? Further, to be quite honest, why would this conspiracy bother? WTC7 isn't a well known casualty of the attacks. Most people weren't all that aware of the building before the attacks and not that many more know of it afterwards.

You can say that was material being ejected out the side of the building...but why would it come out in localized spots? Also, you can clearly see, in video of the collapses, that some squibs were several stories below the collapse wave.

Do you even know what a 'squib' is. it is a small explosive. You are begging the question by presuming their existance and using that presumption as proof of their existance. Logical fallacy much?

Also, if the building really did pancake, why was there no resemblance of the floors being stacked on the ground? The concrete, steel and other materials were pulverized...along with the huge steel core, which seems to have dissapeared.

No idea, I'm not a structural engineer. My guess is you aren't either. But it looked like a big pile of rubble to me, with nothing unusual about it.


Don't get me wrong, I think would have been very hard indeed to get explosives in there, place them without anybody knowing, and keeping people quiet, but none-the-less, the evidence does suggest that explosives were used.

No, pulling down a building that size in a controlled demolition under ordinary circumstances would be 'very hard indeed'. Doing it without being detected would be so hard beyond belief. I would have to see some hard evidence that this was done and so far, none has been forthcoming.


The second tower to get hit was struck at an angle and most of the jet fuel sprayed out in the massive fireball, yet that tower fell first. The odd things was, they both fell exactly the same way, despite being hit very differently. And why would the entire thing collapse?.

Because they both fell from the same cause, the impact had jack to do with it. It was the fire weakening the metal up at the top whic came down and then took out lower floors. I would EXPECT that they would both fall the same way under those circumstances.


Only the top part was damaged, why would the mid and lower levels have any reason to fall?[/QUOTE]

Because it fell from the top down. As each layer came down onto the one on top of it, it took that one down onto the next. Again, under thos circumstances one would expect the whole tower to come down. It would be odd if it DIDN'T.


Further conspiracy theory blather snipped for merciful brevity.
 
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Fortunately, none of the thousands of people needed to pull this conspiracy off are talking, publishing books, appearing on Larry King, having their husbands or wives rat them out...it is a really good conspiracy in that sense. THey picked really good conspirators...other potential conspirators should take note of the quality of the humans selected to participate.

Dick Cheney (talking to explosives expert): Son, we need you to get a team together and go into the World Trade Center and rig the buildings for controlled demolition.

Explosives Expert: Why are we doing this sir?

Dick Cheney: We're gonna blow up the skyscrapers and kill everybody in there and then blame it on Islamic terrorists, son.

Explosives Expert: Sounds like a plan. We'll get right on it.
 
Of course that was the B-Movie conversation. The real world one would go like this...

Dick Cheney (talking to explosives expert): Son, we need you to get a team together and go into the World Trade Center and rig the buildings for controlled demolition.

Explosives Expert: Why are we doing this sir?

Dick Cheney: We're gonna blow up the skyscrapers and kill everybody in there and then blame it on Islamic terrorists, son.

Explosives Expert: Listen, Slick, I don't know what you been smokin, but I'm gonna sic the cops on you right now and let them try to sort you out. You've lost your ****in mind.
 
That is what I was trying to get at. I just think that Cheney saw an oppurtunity to make some money on Katrina, and did so, by taking advantage of the distress of those less fortunate.

It has also been shown, even more in the recent news, that the current administration had planned on invading Iraq regardless of what the UN said about it. They just needed an excuse to do it...*cough* 9/11. *Sneeze* Problem-reaction solution...ahem.
Ok, but what does Katrina have to do with 9/11? Couldn't both simply have been exploited? That Cheney profited from both proves nothing (still waiting for proof that Cheney profited from anything).
 
I thought I knew THE TRUTHtm . Why did NORAD not do their job on that one day?

They actually did do their job, but they are only able to do it so fast and so effectively. There's a reason for this.

Why did the President not do anything when he was told planes were flown into the WTC?

What would you have him do? Jump up and scream like a little girl? He was in a secure area, with the road to AF1 scheduled to be secured at a set time under a set procedure.

Now answer me this: What did Clinton do the day of the '93 bombing of the WTC? Give me exact details now.

Why did Larry Silverstein rent out the complex just before it was destroyed?

Would you CT's make up your mind? Last time I heard this it was that Silverstein couldn't rent it out and that it was a big white elephant.

Why did WTC7 collapse?

Fire and debris.

Other buildings were damaged more than that one,

Looks can be decieving. I can show you two houses, one might look better than the other but in fact is on the verge of collapse from termite damage. WTC7 had a fire going. That was the problem.

yet it collapsed perfectly onto itself. Don't believe me? Look up pictures yourself.

It collapsed perfectly onto itself, yet managed to damage buildings nearby...Must be some new definition of the work 'perfect'.

You guys aren't dumb...I respect you for having an opinion, but even I can't deny evidence like the squibs.

What you call 'squibs' are little puffs in over-magnified vid shots. These look nothing like the 'squibs' one would see in a demolition project.

You can say that was material being ejected out the side of the building...but why would it come out in localized spots?

Why wouldn't it?

Also, you can clearly see, in video of the collapses, that some squibs were several stories below the collapse wave.

You are saying that the 'explosions' are going off after the building has started to collpase. Is there a disconnect here?

Also, if the building really did pancake, why was there no resemblance of the floors being stacked on the ground?

Material can only building up so high in a free standing manner.

The concrete, steel and other materials were pulverized...along with the huge steel core, which seems to have dissapeared.

Its there. The core collapsed as well. The derbis was spread over a large area.

Don't get me wrong, I think would have been very hard indeed to get explosives in there, place them without anybody knowing, and keeping people quiet, but none-the-less, the evidence does suggest that explosives were used.

Actually, there is not one bit of conclusive evidence that explosives were used. There is not even decent evidence that explosives could even have been placed!

The second tower to get hit was struck at an angle and most of the jet fuel sprayed out in the massive fireball, yet that tower fell first.

Don't expect buildings to have hit points, there are a lot of structural factors involved in the process. Trying to oversimplify in the manner is ludicrous.

The odd things was, they both fell exactly the same way, despite being hit very differently.

Why would they fail differently? It was mostly the fire that caused the failure. It was the impact that allowed the fire

And why would the entire thing collapse? Only the top part was damaged, why would the mid and lower levels have any reason to fall?

Because a large amount of dead load just became a live load. Not many buildings can take that.

I don't think anybody questioning the official story is trying to prey on the deaths of those lost on that day.

I beg to differ. Many of the CTs are getting downright ghoulish and accusing folks who don't make any sense. The number of lies being told by CT'ers in the name of 'Truth' is getting obscene.
 
Could be, we've discussed this in depth and I've yet to see much evidence for it. That is not to say that oil wasn't a consideration for this war. I think it very likely that it was. But as has been pointed out before there were many other ways Bush could have made his friends rich beyond belief. One was simply to make an agreement with Saddam that would give exclusive rights to America for rebuilding Iraqi oil infrastructure which was to be undertaken by German and French interests.

True, evidence is hard to find however the last part of your post is relevant. Saddam would not play ball with the US and were dealing heavily with France I believe. Now I hear that 60% of all the oil capability was sold outright to US connected companies. Starting a war simply gives more of the Bush buddies richer. Oil, war suppliers, weapons builders and Halliburton for the civilian infrastructure. I just don't trust that they have ever had our interest at heart. In fact they have not done a damn thing for US security as in ports, cities and borders. All the effort has gone overseas and through their friends. Funny thing.
 
Of course that was the B-Movie conversation. The real world one would go like this...

Dick Cheney (talking to explosives expert): Son, we need you to get a team together and go into the World Trade Center and rig the buildings for controlled demolition.

Explosives Expert: Why are we doing this sir?

Dick Cheney: We're gonna blow up the skyscrapers and kill everybody in there and then blame it on Islamic terrorists, son.

Explosives Expert: Listen, Slick, I don't know what you been smokin, but I'm gonna sic the cops on you right now and let them try to sort you out. You've lost your ****in mind.
:D

Dick Cheney: Ok, all you guys, remember, the first rule of 9/11 conspiracy is no one talks about 9/11 conspiracy.

Lackey #1: Even to our wives?

Dick Cheney: Even to your wives.

Lackey #2: Even to our moms?

Dick Cheney: Look you guys aren't getting this. No one talks about 9/11 conspiracy.

Lackey #3: Well we have to discuss it among ourselves.

Dick Cheney: :mad: Yeah, I know, that's not what I meant. Don't talk about 9/11 conspiracy in public.

Lackey #3: Can we discuss it among ourselves in public.

Dick Cheney: No.

Lackey #3: What if no one is around?

Dick Cheney: Look the idea is that no one is to find out about 9/11 conspiracy.

Lackey #4: Come on Dick, there are hundreds of us already involved in the conspiracy. What's wrong with telling just a few more?
 
True, evidence is hard to find however the last part of your post is relevant. Saddam would not play ball with the US and were dealing heavily with France I believe. Now I hear that 60% of all the oil capability was sold outright to US connected companies. Starting a war simply gives more of the Bush buddies richer. Oil, war suppliers, weapons builders and Halliburton for the civilian infrastructure. I just don't trust that they have ever had our interest at heart. In fact they have not done a damn thing for US security as in ports, cities and borders. All the effort has gone overseas and through their friends. Funny thing.

Real 9-11 conspiracy evidence is as hard to find as the WMD of Iraq. It think both theories nullify. lol.
 
That is a clever post that seems to have been unnoticed. That's how a controled demolition, squibs and all, of a skyscraper looks like.


While looking at the tower before it fell there were no flashes as seen on the video if a controlled demolition had occured.

It was consistant with the building design of center support with the extreme heat from jet fuel eventually eroding the support of the above floors and then the weight cascading the floors down.
 
True, evidence is hard to find however the last part of your post is relevant. Saddam would not play ball with the US and were dealing heavily with France I believe. Now I hear that 60% of all the oil capability was sold outright to US connected companies. Starting a war simply gives more of the Bush buddies richer. Oil, war suppliers, weapons builders and Halliburton for the civilian infrastructure. I just don't trust that they have ever had our interest at heart. In fact they have not done a damn thing for US security as in ports, cities and borders. All the effort has gone overseas and through their friends. Funny thing.
Well I don't want to devolve into a side argument. I think Saddam would have played ball. He just didn't want to play our brand of ball.

If Bush had approached him in private and said look, we'll drop the whole charade of getting rid of your WMD if you will cooperate and cut my friends in on the profits. The deal would have been done in a heart beat IMO. Bush could have announced Saddam's complete cooperation and willingness to get rid of all WMD. He would have looked better than Reagan, avoided a war and made boat loads of cash and secured the political future of the Republican party for the near future.

I think he didn't because he had other priorities besides making his friends rich. Right or wrong a side deal wouldn't have resolved those issues.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree on that point.
 
CptFarlow, I've reread some of your post in order to understand your way of thinking. I apologise if our debunking your theories might seem agressive, it is only healthy debating, I hope you see that. I can also see you are a nice person, but I'm reading in your posts that you let your feelings guide your jugement very easyly. I'm not saying to be like a Vulcan, intuition is a good thing, but being rational is putting ones emotions on the back seat.:)
 
They normally start with the "Controlled Demolition" argument for WTC 1 and 2, which is normally rebutted without difficulty..they then segue into the WTC7 collapse and try to make that the focus (We haven't seen the "pull it" quote referenced in this thread yet, but we will, we will). Normally the Pentagon comes last, and we've seen the first reference to the tapes question.

Ah, but the argument for controlled demolitions hasn't been refutted. There is a lot of evidence to support it...and the official story just doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, because the evidence was detroyed before being investigated...(and a few volunteers getting to see some debris at the Fresh Kills landfill doesn't count...) was shipped out and destroyed. Why would they destroy it so quickly if they really wanted to know what happened? As far as the pull it quote...yeah that does raise some questions. I don't agree with others who yell, "ooh! He admitted it!" Some think that it means to demolish, some think that it meant to pull firefighters out of the building. Many reports have showed that there weren't any firefighter operations in the building at the time, and I believe that he said it to distract people from the fact that explosives were there before 9/11. The average American watching PBS wouldn't have known that you need days, even weeks to plant the explosives needed to take down a building like that.

As far as the tapes...we ask because there isn't a good answer. Why would they have a reason to tell the employees at the hotel to not talk about what they saw? What are they hiding? To simply brush it off as, "that's what they do..." is just crazy. Never trust your goverment, always question it, otherwise, you let them take control. The government is supposed to be our servant, not our master.

At least this particular bunch of CT'ers seems to be grounded enough to concur that it was commercial airliners that hit the buildings (I could be wrong and we have yet to hear from CptFarlow on the Pentagon to any great degree). But always the same arguments. Nothing new. Seen it once, seen it again.

I have heard a few quotes of people claiming the planes didn't look like normal ones, with the "blue logo" on the front...but these don't prove much at all. We have seen evidence of wreckage from the plane, with windows, at the scene. While it may be possible, I do believe that those were real commercial planes. I am not ruling out that they may have been drones, it has been planned before.

The Pentagon raises a lot of questions, no doubt you have all heard. Many believe that a missile hit the building, many believe it was a smaller plane. Others say it was a huge 757. I don't know what it was, but I don't believe it was a huge jetliner. The wreckage at the site doesn't match up with it. Within minutes after the impact, employees were out there to clean up the wreckage and take it to a waiting truck. You have all most likely seen the picture of the employees covering something with the blue tarp, carrying it by hand, and having it taken away. The other evidence was picked up by hand by other employees. What was under that tarp? If it was part of the fuselage of the 757, why take it away? How would they be able to carry it? As far as the hole, it is quite small...you can't deny that. There is no impact where the engines would have barreled into the building, and there is no real evidence that a plane hit the building. The official explanation is that the jet fuel vaporized the fuselage. It can easily be found that titanium boils at 5949 degrees F. Vaporization takes place well above even these extreme temperatures, so to think that the jet fuel from the few seconds of impact could cause temperatures this high is insane. How would they have been able to identify any of the DNA if temperature had reached that high? No biological matter could have survived.

Also, look at any list of passengers for those flights that day. See any Arab names? Nope. Look up the autopsy reports...nope, no Arab names at all...strange. But it doesn't matter, right? Dubya said it was terrorists, so let's just go with that...it doesn't make sense, but let's go with it.

Lastly, you said it's the same stuff, every time. Well, let me ask you something. To prove that person A killed person B, you don't go across the world and dig up person ZKDS and question him, he knows nothing of Persons A and B. What I am trying to say is, it's the same evidence because this is what doesn't make sense. I'm human just like all of you, so I surely can make mistakes, but so can you. I am still not fully convinced that there is a whole conspiracy, but there are just too many unanswered questions for me to let it go.
 
I thought I knew THE TRUTHtm Why did NORAD not do their job on that one day?

Perhaps I am mistaken here but isn't NORAD designed to prevent attacks from entering from outside the US? How prepared could they have been for this scenario and how quickly could they have been expected to act?

Look up pictures yourself. You guys aren't dumb...I respect you for having an opinion, but even I can't deny evidence like the squibs.
I have looked at the pics and I see indiscriminate white objects. What makes them squibs? I have done a Google image search and can't find a squib pic that I can really match to whats in the WTC photos. Can you point me to one? I really don't see how you can say what those alledged squibs are.
 
Did I say that Cheney controlled the weather? No. So why the f*ck would you think something like that?

What I was referring to was the fact that there are many neighborhoods, mostly black communities, that are still flooded, still without power. They aren't sure when, if ever, power will be restored.

How does V.P. Cheney make money from black people not having electricity?
 
Being a government employee and having a low post count I would like to add my 2 cents. I what to get a avatar one day.

I have never or know of any other federal worker who has conspired to committ mass murder but I have used government computer to browse the JREF forums and read Randi's commentaries.

From what I have read here and at LC2 forums these CTs have know idea how the government works.

My hats off to RANDFAN, delphi and all the other for all the good info,I only wish I had your writing and critical thinking skills.
 
Never trust your goverment, always question it, otherwise, you let them take control. The government is supposed to be our servant, not our master.

Sure, but its crazy to strap on the tin-foil hat every time you see something the least bit out of place.
 

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