What Really Happened on 9/11?

[valis]

You know just as well as I do that any time a plane deviates from it's flight plan, fighter jets are flown in to escort the aircraft and visually inspect to determine the situation.

Say what? Could you point me to a source for this. I admit that it has been 20 years but I was once a military ATC guy and I have never heard of such a thing. Doesn't mean it wasn't implemented after I left but there should be some public info on it. I would really be interested in seeing it.

 

[RayG]

...because Rudy Guiliani had, against the advice of every single person on planet earth, put a big honkin' fuel oil tank in the building.

By "every single person on planet earth", do you mean every unmarried person on earth, or every individual presently alive on the planet?

I'm married and never spoke with Guiliani, so it must be the former. I'll check with some of my single buddies to confirm though.

RayG

 

[RandFan]

CptFarlow, I've reread some of your post in order to understand your way of thinking. I apologise if our debunking your theories might seem agressive, it is only healthy debating, I hope you see that. I can also see you are a nice person, but I'm reading in your posts that you let your feelings guide your jugement very easyly. I'm not saying to be like a Vulcan, intuition is a good thing, but being rational is putting ones emotions on the back seat.

Thank you, yes. In the end it isn't us vs them.

I have debated many here who I currently agree with on this issue. I really resented the way I was made to feel at loose change and I don't think it appropriate that we make those who have a contrary view feel the way I did when I was over there.

Thanks Pardalis.

Though I reserve the right to give Roxdog and others a hard time.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

It can easily be found that titanium boils at 5949 degrees F. Vaporization takes place well above even these extreme temperatures, so to think that the jet fuel from the few seconds of impact could cause temperatures this high is insane.

I won't argue that point. However unless this was a special all-titanium super plane that hit the Pentagon, the fuselage would have been made mostly of Aluminum, with a melting point of around 1220 f, depending on what its alloyed with. A temperature easily made by jet fuel.

 

[RandFan]

How does V.P. Cheney make money from black people not having electricity?

It's best not to ask too many questions.

 

[kookbreaker]

Ah, but the argument for controlled demolitions hasn't been refutted.

The arguement for CD refutes itself when you take more than a cursory glance at what is required for even the simplest of demolition projects. It becomes a complete non-starter. This is not a simple matter of having some kids run in with backpacks full of C4. Life, and structural design do nto work that way.

There is a lot of evidence to support it...and the official story just doesn't make sense.

Why? And Why do no structural Engineers agree with your asessment?

Unfortunately, because the evidence was detroyed before being investigated...(and a few volunteers getting to see some debris at the Fresh Kills landfill doesn't count...) was shipped out and destroyed. Why would they destroy it so quickly if they really wanted to know what happened?

Because we really do know what happened.

The Pentagon raises a lot of questions, no doubt you have all heard. Many believe that a missile hit the building, many believe it was a smaller plane.

We call them 'stupid people' yes.

Others say it was a huge 757. I don't know what it was, but I don't believe it was a huge jetliner. The wreckage at the site doesn't match up with it.

As a matter of fact it does. Try reading something besides conspiracy sites for a change.

Within minutes after the impact, employees were out there to clean up the wreckage and take it to a waiting truck. You have all most likely seen the picture of the employees covering something with the blue tarp, carrying it by hand, and having it taken away. The other evidence was picked up by hand by other employees. What was under that tarp? If it was part of the fuselage of the 757, why take it away? How would they be able to carry it?

This is more 9/11 CT nonsense.

http://911myths.com/html/blue_box.html

As far as the hole, it is quite small...you can't deny that. There is no impact where the engines would have barreled into the building, and there is no real evidence that a plane hit the building.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

The official explanation is that the jet fuel vaporized the fuselage.

That is not the official explanation.

It can easily be found that titanium boils at 5949 degrees F. Vaporization takes place well above even these extreme temperatures, so to think that the jet fuel from the few seconds of impact could cause temperatures this high is insane. How would they have been able to identify any of the DNA if temperature had reached that high? No biological matter could have survived.

Since this arguement is based on a false premise, there is no need to refute this nonsense.

Also, look at any list of passengers for those flights that day. See any Arab names? Nope. Look up the autopsy reports...nope, no Arab names at all...strange.

Not true:

http://911myths.com/html/missing_arabs.html

But it doesn't matter, right? Dubya said it was terrorists, so let's just go with that...it doesn't make sense, but let's go with it.

Lastly, you said it's the same stuff, every time. Well, let me ask you something. To prove that person A killed person B, you don't go across the world and dig up person ZKDS and question him, he knows nothing of Persons A and B. What I am trying to say is, it's the same evidence because this is what doesn't make sense. I'm human just like all of you, so I surely can make mistakes, but so can you. I am still not fully convinced that there is a whole conspiracy, but there are just too many unanswered questions for me to let it go.

There will always be questions, especially if you keep inventing crap to support them.

 

[ntech]

I have heard a few quotes of people claiming the planes didn't look like normal ones, with the "blue logo" on the front...but these don't prove much at all. We have seen evidence of wreckage from the plane, with windows, at the scene. While it may be possible, I do believe that those were real commercial planes. I am not ruling out that they may have been drones, it has been planned before.

The Pentagon raises a lot of questions, no doubt you have all heard. Many believe that a missile hit the building, many believe it was a smaller plane.

What about all the people on the planes? Their husbands and wives and other family. Were they all in on it. When you post absurd statements it diminishes all of what you say.
My town lost 12 people alone. There was a company Catnor Fitzgerald that we let use our conference room for months after who lost hundreds that day. The only items that did not make it to the landfill were trucks of metal that the mob stole to sell on the metal market.

Really, let's get real. I was here in NY, witnessed one tower fall with my eyes and have continually looked at tons of conspiracy bullsh*t since; none with any merit.

You have to be from mars to believe any of that crap.

 

[pgwenthold]

One major problem (as if there is only one) with the whole "The attack on the WTC was planned by the Dick Cheney as an excuse to invade Iraq so that Haliburton could clean up on government contracts" is that it massively relies on the gullibility of the US people. Suppose the US citizens don't buy the whole Iraq/9-11 juxtaposition that has been presented? The media have to fall for it, and the majority of the country has to fall for it. If they don't, the president doesn't get the support to go to war in Iraq, and Haliburton doesn't get its contracts. In the meantime, someone starts getting wise to the fact that the admin seems to be bent on starting an unprovoked war, and starts digging. Given the size of the consipiracy, it doesn't take a reporter long to start getting folks to squeal, and Haliburton goes massively in flames.

Yeah, I know that the US folks can be lead, but shoot, even if it is as much as 80 or 90% likely, that is a HUGE risk for the company to be completely destroyed, as well as the cost to the individuals involved AND the administration? If it were shown that Cheney were responsible, he'd be lucky to survive the lynch mob, and Bush and all republicans would go down by association, regardless of whether there are any legitimate ties.

Is the payoff to Haliburton worth the risk of getting caught? Boy, you have to be awfully confident on the gullibility of the american public.

Even if you don't get caught, are you going to kill 3000 people just given the possibility you might be able to get defense contracts?

That just scratches the surface of the silliness.

 

[ntech]

How does V.P. Cheney make money from black people not having electricity?

Easy question

To Cheney they don't exist; or at least they are a mere thorn in his side.

 

[ntech]

One major problem (as if there is only one) with the whole "The attack on the WTC was planned by the Dick Cheney as an excuse to invade Iraq so that Haliburton could clean up on government contracts" is that it massively relies on the gullibility of the US people.

I agree that there is not a connection with Iraq and 911 other than they used it as an excuse to invade Iraq. They had the American public so frightened that anyone who disputed it here was branded unpatriotic.

 

[RandFan]

I agree that there is not a connection with Iraq and 911 other than they used it as an excuse to invade Iraq. They had the American public so frightened that anyone who disputed it here was branded unpatriotic.

Agreed.

 

[valis]

Easy question

To Cheney they don't exist; or at least they are a mere thorn in his side.

Two questions:

1. How does that make him any money.

2. What does he do if say Gen. Powell or Sec. Rice come by? Does he ignore them or get agravated?

3. Whoops make that 3 question. How do you know what the VPs personal opinion of African Americans is? Do you know him?

 

[headscratcher4]

Well I don't want to devolve into a side argument. I think Saddam would have played ball. He just didn't want to play our brand of ball.

If Bush had approached him in private and said look, we'll drop the whole charade of getting rid of your WMD if you will cooperate and cut my friends in on the profits. The deal would have been done in a heart beat IMO. Bush could have announced Saddam's complete cooperation and willingness to get rid of all WMD. He would have looked better than Reagan, avoided a war and made boat loads of cash and secured the political future of the Republican party for the near future.

I think he didn't because he had other priorities besides making his friends rich. Right or wrong a side deal wouldn't have resolved those issues.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree on that point.

This all presuposes that the man on trial in Iraq is really Saddam and not a double. It is possible that the whole war was staged to allow the real Saddam to slip away and live large on his share of the war profits -- possibly as a woman -- in some "friendly" country (france, i suspect).

 

[chipmunk stew]

Yes, he did win it fairly. BUT, if he was so worried about terrorism destroying his buildings, why would he take out an insurance policy covering terrorism but not acts of war? I realize this point doesn't prove much of anything at all...but it is still peculiar.

Considering that the WTC had already experienced an attempted terrorist attack once before, and that the chances of an act of war committed on mainland soil seems particularly slim, this question answers itself.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Even if you don't get caught, are you going to kill 3000 people just given the possibility you might be able to get defense contracts?

That just scratches the surface of the silliness.

That, to me, is the biggest thinga bout this nonsense. I think our leaders are corrupt and, at best, only marginally competant. But venality and incompetance are a far cry for murderous, and if someone wants me to beleive they intentionally murdered thousands of American citizens, someone is going to have to give me some damn hard evidence to support that. Raising a few questions isn't enough. And so far, no conspiracy whacko has delivered the goods on that count.

 

[bob_kark]

You know just as well as I do that any time a plane deviates from it's flight plan, fighter jets are flown in to escort the aircraft and visually inspect to determine the situation. So your argument is null. The fact is, procedure wasn't followed that day, and that day Dick Cheney was in charge. Why, even after two planes hitting the WTC, would a plane be allowed to fly directly toward the Pentagon, circle overhead, and hit the CIA building without anybody blinking an eye until it was done?

Wrong.

From: HOMELAND SECURITY
Agency Resources Address
Violations of Restricted
Airspace, but Management
Improvements Are Needed

After the September 2001 attacks, NORAD’s mission was expanded
beyond defending just external airspace to include domestic airspace....

Prior to the September 2001 attacks, NORAD did not monitor domestic airspace....

However, in July 2005, DOD informed us that it is planning
to share information contained in its new system with the FAA upon
completion of an interagency memorandum of understanding.

 

[Sultanist]

I'm posting this (post #15) so I can display urls in my next post.

 

[kookbreaker]

. Never trust your goverment, always question it, otherwise, you let them take control. The government is supposed to be our servant, not our master.

Wow. Gee. What a stunning and revealing revelation to us all. Until Farlow came here, we would have thought only to trust our government and would never have thought that it wouldn't have out best interests at heart.

CptFarlow, the problem with you CT types is that you think you are the only ones with any suspsicion, any concerns. You aren't but you act as if the imagined definiciency in our wariness requires you to tune yours up to exponential levels to compensate. The result is you seeing things that never happened, taking the word of con-artists and liars just because what they say makes the bad ol' gubmint look bad.

I've said this before and I'll say it again (and I wasn't the first to say it): Conspiracy Theorists are like a watchdog that growls at every single shadow. They think that they are doing a magnificent job, when in fact they are worse than useless.

 

[headscratcher4]

What about all the people on the planes? Their husbands and wives and other family. Were they all in on it. When you post absurd statements it diminishes all of what you say.
My town lost 12 people alone. There was a company Catnor Fitzgerald that we let use our conference room for months after who lost hundreds that day. The only items that did not make it to the landfill were trucks of metal that the mob stole to sell on the metal market.

Really, let's get real. I was here in NY, witnessed one tower fall with my eyes and have continually looked at tons of conspiracy bullsh*t since; none with any merit.

You have to be from mars to believe any of that crap.

Exactly...I am unfortunate. A business aquiantence died on the plane that went into the Pentagon, and family friends were on the plane that went into the WTC. Would the missle advocates tell me where the woman I know from business circles went if there was no plane into the Pentagon? Her family would like to know so they can recover the body.

 

[CptFarlow]

CptFarlow, I've reread some of your post in order to understand your way of thinking. I apologise if our debunking your theories might seem agressive, it is only healthy debating, I hope you see that. I can also see you are a nice person, but I'm reading in your posts that you let your feelings guide your jugement very easyly. I'm not saying to be like a Vulcan, intuition is a good thing, but being rational is putting ones emotions on the back seat.

Thanks, and just so you guys know, I hold nothing against you. I enjoy a healthy debate.

As far as my emotions, I am upset as to why so many questions go unaswered. Many here have brushed them off as, "oh well...mistakes happen." But when they happen on a day that could have saved thousands of lives, they need to be looked into. I am rational. I try to look at everything objectively. I have only recently come into the debate over 9/11, so I have seen it with a fresh view. I never really thought about it much until I started doing the research. But now that I have, so much doesn't make sense.