What is paranormal in Homeopathy
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@Olaf, I questioned the reported concentrations on the other thread. The concentrations reported in the abstract were 10-5 molal. This is hardly an ultra dilute solution in homeopathic terms. For common salts it approaches the ppm level. If you have the paper would you care to confirm the concentrations?
I noticed that, too. But I think their shorthand might mean 1X10^-5 molecules per kg. Maybe. If it is moles, then you are right. One would expect some slight, but measurable, differences compared to distilled water at that concentration (PPM range).
It is hard to tell what they mean by "The iteration is repeated until extreme dilutions are reached (less than 1·10-5 mol kg-1) to the point that we may call the resulting solution an extremely diluted solution, namely the composition of the solution is identical to that of the solvent used (e.g. twice distilled water)."anor277 said:
As far as I know, "mol" is not a standard abbreviation for molar (M) or molal (m). It seems pointless to abbreviate "mole" as "mol". And the underlined part seems to indicate that they mean a dilution beyond Avagardo's limit. If "mol" stands for molecule, that would be consistent with a dilution around "14C".
As you say, hard to tell anything from the abstract...
Beats me. To show they know there are no molecules of the original compound in the final solution?
But why on earth would the researchers in all these studies always test dilution and succession together. You would think that if they have, after 200 years, finally demonstrated a difference between remedies and distilled water they might try to answer questions such as "Does it work with just dilution?" or "What method of succession works best : 100 shakes, 10 shakes, 1 shake?" or "Is striking against a leather pad necessary or is shaking alone sufficient?" Or "Does succession of distilled water produce the same effect?"
But they never do. They stop as soon as they get any effect that seems to validate the entire process. As if that was their goal rather than learning what is really going on...
But why on earth would the researchers in all these studies always test dilution and succession together. You would think that if they have, after 200 years, finally demonstrated a difference between remedies and distilled water they might try to answer questions such as "Does it work with just dilution?" or "What method of succession works best : 100 shakes, 10 shakes, 1 shake?" or "Is striking against a leather pad necessary or is shaking alone sufficient?" Or "Does succession of distilled water produce the same effect?"
But they never do. They stop as soon as they get any effect that seems to validate the entire process. As if that was their goal rather than learning what is really going on...
patnray said:
mol is a standard abbreviation for mole, especially when used in units.
e.g. Gas Constant, R = 8.3 J mol-1 K-1 Avogadros Number = 6.022 x 1023 mol-1
However, as you state, 10-5 mol kg-1 is hardly ultra-dilute! This suggests to me that they are using mol as shorthand for molecule, and their solutions will have 0.00001 molecules per kg.
Dave
patnray said:
I have the paper; they used solutions of 3 different solutes. They went all the way to Avogrado's limit 10 (-24th).
I will have more to say about this paper later. For the time being I will say that this paper is one more nail in the coffin of all the naysayers.
Can't wait to tell you what it says in the conclusion.
(although this paper presents good evidence that the solvent (water) changes its physico-chemical properties -- much better evidence comes from Thermoluminescence and the histamine/basophil studies.
Carry on negative, naysaying, pseudoskeptics.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Olaf/QII said:
It's 'proceeding', by the way.
I just want to say how much I enjoy the fact that reading a paper appears to put you on first name terms with its author. Could you try to be a little less breathless in your adulation?
As to the substance of the paper: read the other posts and respond sensibly.
Dr. A Sheikh
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Non-Sense Homeopath said:
To my information, homeopathic doctors from different regions have been moved to northern areas. Dr. MAS is attending scouting camp with Dr. Aamir Shahzad and group.
Dr. Zahid Bashir contingent is enjoying at murree.
Dr. Cheem and his colleagues are in shangrilla hills.
Dr. A Sheikh
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Donks said:
What does this mean?
Dr. A Sheikh
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Donks said:
I am not clone of anybody. I have no links with kumar. I am sheikh.
I do not think it is fair to regard the Pakistani homoeopaths as kumar-clones! There are obvious similarities, such as lack of scientific knowledge, and adherence to their own interpretations of the laws of nature in spite of all evidence, but the dissimilarities are more important:
First of all, they do not speak Kumarese! When they generate nonsense, it is generally intelligible.
Second, Kumar never retreats, whereas the Pakistanis disappear when the going gets tough.
First of all, they do not speak Kumarese! When they generate nonsense, it is generally intelligible.
Second, Kumar never retreats, whereas the Pakistanis disappear when the going gets tough.
Well, when Kumar writes intelligible posts (yes, it does happen on occasion), they are no diffeent form the MAS squad's.steenkh said:
Kumar never goes away, but he does retreat. Constantly. He retreats into intelligibility, he retreats into new threads, he retreats into new topics.