What is paranormal in Homeopathy

Donks said:
Are you going to discuss applying for the 1 Million Dollar Challenge or do you have nothing better to do than discussing us at your all important seminar?
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A seminar where they will be talking about US?! Wow. I guess they must really be hurting for something to talk about. Maybe having on hand the cure for every disease known to man isn't as exciting as I thought it would be.
 
Originally posted by flume Maybe you could make an accurate translation of two or three of Rolfe's long posts. [/B]
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I should also have added: best to get permission from Rolfe first if anyone wanted to do this.
 
Donks said:
Are you going to discuss applying for the 1 Million Dollar Challenge or do you have nothing better to do than discussing us at your all important seminar?
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Come and win... Stay in Pakistan is also free. Lunch and dinners will be from our side. Visit to historical places are also free.
 
Kumarclone said:
Come and win... Stay in Pakistan is also free. Lunch and dinners will be from our side. Visit to historical places are also free.
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Was that supposed to answer my question? Cause it didn't.
 
Non-Sense Homeopath said:
Come and win... Stay in Pakistan is also free. Lunch and dinners will be from our side. Visit to historical places are also free.
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Really? If I give you my address, when can I expect the plane tickets to arrive? :rolleyes:

Course, you could save a lot of money if you'd just answer Rolfe's posts.
 
delphi_ote said:
Really? If I give you my address, when can I expect the plane tickets to arrive? :rolleyes:

Course, you could save a lot of money if you'd just answer Rolfe's posts.
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We have a very good plan to receive you. Come and experience yourself? After attending the seminar, you will never talk about homeopathy in rude. :D
 
Homeo Man said:
We have a very good plan to receive you. Come and experience yourself? After attending the seminar, you will never talk about homeopathy in rude. :D
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Is that all it takes to convince you that homeopathy is valid? A good public seminar with good lecturers? Wow. Whoulda thunk it was so easy...

hi04005.jpg
 
Darat said:
Silicon toxicity.
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from pg 17 (???) i believe.

care to elaborate on how silicon toxicity is responsible for louis rey's 2003 Physica A paper

http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/505702/description#description

Honorary Editor
H.W. Capel
See editorial board for all editors information


New Research Directions of Physica A:
• Applications of Statistical Mechanics in Biology - Physica A articles highlighted on the Physics of Life Website
• Applications of Statistical Mechanics to macroeconomic modelling and financial markets: Econophysics

Ideas/proposals: We are interested in receiving publication proposals for books, new journals and co-operation for existing journals. In all cases you are invited to contact us. A prompt answer is ensured.
C. Duermeijer, Publishing Editor, E-mail: [email protected]

Description

Physica A publishes research in the field of statistical mechanics and its applications.
Statistical mechanics sets out to explain the behaviour of macroscopic systems by studying the statistical properties of their microscopic constituents.
Applications of the techniques of statistical mechanics are widespread, and include
applications to physical systems such as solids, liquids and gases;
applications to chemical and biological systems (colloids, interfaces, complex fluids, polymers and biopolymers, cell physics);
and other interdisciplinary applications to for instance biological, economical and sociological systems.

Specific subfields covered by the journal are:

• Random systems
• Fluids and soft condensed matter
• Dynamical processes
• Fundamental and general methods
• Models
• Biological applications
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correction it is pg 18

better yet ignore my last post, i am not quite ready to get VAPORIZED.

I still have a lot of DBPC in vitro studies to debate.
 
The paper in question appears to be

Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Rey, L. Physica A.

abstract is here and the location in the journal (for those with a good library nearby)


Physica A: Statistical Mechanics and its Applications
Volume 323 , 15 May 2003, Pages 67-74


My google-fu is only good enough to find a billion homeopathy sites crowing about it. I haven't found any actual discussion of the paper yet...

--Terry.
 
Terry said:
The paper in question appears to be

Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Rey, L. Physica A.

abstract is here and the location in the journal (for those with a good library nearby)


Physica A: Statistical Mechanics and its Applications
Volume 323 , 15 May 2003, Pages 67-74


My google-fu is only good enough to find a billion homeopathy sites crowing about it. I haven't found any actual discussion of the paper yet...

--Terry.
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There is a certain person here [cough] geni [/cough] who loves to scream CONTAMINATION!

This is absurd and it has no support from chemists or physicists. A chemist --chapin-- initially gave a typical knee jerk reaction claiming contamination but has since recanted in the most sheepish manner.

http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf




.
.
 
Terry said:
The paper in question appears to be

Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Rey, L. Physica A.

abstract is here and the location in the journal (for those with a good library nearby)


Physica A: Statistical Mechanics and its Applications
Volume 323 , 15 May 2003, Pages 67-74


My google-fu is only good enough to find a billion homeopathy sites crowing about it. I haven't found any actual discussion of the paper yet...

--Terry.
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no need for anyone to go to the library i have the full paper here. i highly recommend everyone read it.


http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf
 
Olaf/QII said:
There is a certain person here [cough] geni [/cough] who loves to scream CONTAMINATION!

This is absurd and it has no support from chemists or physicists. A chemist --chapin-- initially gave a typical knee jerk reaction claiming contamination but has since recanted in the most sheepish manner.

http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf
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You are dealing with molecules that are very common in the enviroment and using a very senertive instrument. Contamintion is imposible to rule out under these conditions particularly when the people doing the experiment did not prepare the test samples themselves.
 
You know very well that there is no contamination. There is no way he, his team, and those who checked the results would be fooled by contamination.

Besides it was already pointed out that this science --thermoluminescence-- is dependant on dose. The lithium and sodium solutions were diluted out of existance. a stray molecule here or there (unlikely) would not change things.

--and the results clearly showed a marked difference between the control, the ghost lithium, and the ghost sodium.

"IT IS TRUSTWORTHY PHYSICS" -- COMMENTED ONE OF THE SCIENTISTS LOOKING ON.
 
Rey has an interesting paper there, still waiting for replication but still.

A couple of points:

1. Peak 2 is assumed to be connected to the hydrogen bond and the rest of the reasoning in the paper is based on that assumption. If this is not the case, the rest falls.

2. I can't find any test of the purity of the Boiron stuff or the chemical composition of the samples prior to freezing.

3. I assume that the actual experiment is carried out in the same fashion as the preliminary tests that checks for a possible relation to the hydrogen bond but it doesn't say anywhere. If different methods were used, there's a source for error.

4. Part of the working hypothesis seems strange to me; "and maintained in the course of the dilution process, probably thanks to successive vigorous shaking". Excuse me? Where did that come from?

5. And when it comes to possible applications in homeopathy, anyone who shakes the bottle 150 strokes/7.5 secs would end up with a really sore arm.
 
Jocce said:
Rey has an interesting paper there, still waiting for replication but still.
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More than just interesting it is AMAZING, EARTHSHAKING, INCREDIBLE!

Here lies the basis from which all pseudo-skeptics will eventually have to admit that they were wrong.

Another paper is due to be published soon I just learned.

Hopefully they will show something similar using ultra-diluted sulphur, phospherous, zinc, gold, silver, etc........

The end is near.
 
Originally posted by Olaf/QII:

More than just interesting it is AMAZING, EARTHSHAKING, INCREDIBLE!

Here lies the basis from which all pseudo-skeptics will eventually have to admit that they were wrong.

Another paper is due to be published soon I just learned.

Hopefully they will show something similar using ultra-diluted sulphur, phospherous, zinc, gold, silver, etc........

The end is near.
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I am not a scientist, physicist, doctor, chemist, or biologist, but as a reasonably intelligent consumer of health products and services I feel compelled to comment on this.

I would love homeopathy to work. Purchasing bottles of stuff at the grocery without prescription would be much more efficient for me in terms of both time and money.

Please be right, Olaf.

Sadly, I think it obvious that you are not.

You are Pons & Fleischman but with a poorer track record.

Assume for the moment that the paper you cite details a legitimate study carried out with integrity. There will be no trouble replicating it, then.

Crowing victory after one (apparent) success indicates that you are nothing but biased.

I do not even accept mainstream medicine studies when they are not replicated nor sufficiently reviewed. What shall I think of caffeine today, or of bran, or of eggs?

It is even more worrisome that you do not comment on the learned comments of Jocce. I assume there will be others from other educated folk here.

Please have the decency to comment, to point out why criticism and doubt are misplaced.

Or ignore them and earn disdain.

You are not the boy who cried "Wolf." You are the townsman who says -- after the ten thousandth false alarm -- "But this boy really saw a wolf."
 
Let's suppose that the experiment was conducted rigorously, the results correctly interpreted and the scenario has since been replicated with the same results by other scientists.

What, exactly does that prove about homeopathy?

Maybe I'm missing something but I would imagine that proof of homeopathy's effectivity would involve experiments with ill people being treated with homeopathic remedies.
 
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