Split Thread What happened to Flight 93?

[beachnut]

...
Funny you should say that! He was only applying the same logic as you. I didn't see a space shuttles worth of debris recovered in either the Challenger or Columbia shuttle explosions either... hmmm... The plot thickens further. Soon enough it won't just be the government that's guilty of murder for cover.

Sad the 911TruthLies cult has an imagination to make up the biggest lies and delusions but can't appreciate the analogy to the Titanic. They say no one else thinks out of the box but they are stuck in a small box of stupid ideas.

 

[apathoid]

I have a challenge for you RedIbis.

You will:
1)cite an example of a high speed(500 mph +), near vertical crash of an intact large airplane and...
2)you will show many pictures of very large pieces of identifiable wreckage from that crash. The pieces must be larger than these pieces of 93(which I'll go out on a limb and say are the largest) and they must identifiable to a part of the airplane(ie a nose section , tail section , wing section or fuselage section).

If you refuse to take this challenge, please give a reason. It's important for you to back your claims that there is not enough debris. If you ignore the request, or don't give a reason that you are refusing - I'll take it as an admission that you are not interested in the truth or are just trolling.

If you accept the challenge and fail - you must admit that you were wrong about this crash scene.

Deal?

ETA: As a gesture of goodwill, I'll offer 2 crashes which fit 1) above: VJ592 and WD991.

Though the search continued for nearly a month, no survivors were ever found and to date, only 75% of the aircraft and the remains of only 37 passengers have been located. Fortunately, the CVR and FDR were found.
Due to the lack of physical evidence recovered from the crash site, investigators initially had to rely on the CVR for clues to the reason behind the crash

WD991 instantly completely disintegrated, scattering wreckage for some 600 yards beyond the main impact crater and sending a column of black smoke into the sky

 

[Arus808]

Ok...let's just say the insiders messed up and only planted enough debris to fill a dumpster. They still had to dig the ditch. How is it that no one in this small town saw any trucks hauling debris and bulldozers in and out? In a town of 245, if a dog poops funny, it the talk of the town. Even if what you claim is true, and there is not enough debris...they still had to spead it out over the countryside without anyone noticing. How is that possible?

jhaha, this is what gets me too; i come from an island state, popuplation just over 1 million, yet I've run into people that knew me because of friends/family members that I knew while growing up

Lanai - a small island where everyone knows everyone, population just over 3000. You get married there, and EVERYONE on the island knows about it, and may show up for your wedding..


why would the "amount" of people living in a town, prevent them from talking about it? Especially an event like a plane crash, or where "strange" trucks would be trucking away dirt?

 

[aggle-rithm]

One thing truthers don't keep into account -- and I know it's been said before -- is that high-speed impacts have extremely counter-intuitive effects. I recently watched a Mythbusters episode where they crushed a car with a rocket sled. I took special notice of this because the car they used was the exact model that I drive.

One would expect a car being crushed to crumple from a large mass into a smaller, denser one. However, that isn't what you see on the high-speed film. It showed no crumpling at all; the car just disappeared little by little, as if it were being consumed by the rocket sled.

Examination of the aftermath showed that it hadn't in fact disappeared, but was reduced to tiny pieces of wreckage strewn all about the area. It certainly didn't look like it used to be a complete car, but...there it was.

 

[aggle-rithm]

The enormity of how stupid that analogy is is not something that I'm about to tackle at this hour.

Right. How could you possibly compare something that Red considers to be an inside job, with something that he does not consider to be an inside job? Can't you tell the difference!?

 

[T.A.M.]

Because not everything is on the Internet, Red Ibis.

Reality. Reality is a different place from the Internet, believe it or not.

The rub of it, for sure. As a matter of fact, if we suddenly lost the internet (perish the thought), the 9/11 attacks, to the truthers, never happened.

If they can't find a photo or video to prove it, then it doesn't exist. Then again, when you show them photos, let's say of plane parts, they use the truther default clause..."They were planted/faked", so what odds.

TAM

 

[johnny karate]

Hold on there now. The photographic record shows an amount of material that would fit in a dumpster. There are no pictures, that I'm aware of that show anything near "several 18 wheelers" worth.

The underlying stupidity of such a comment makes me weep for humanity's future.

 

[roundhead]

The underlying stupidity of such a comment makes me weep for humanity's future.

Hey Jonny Karate..


Think much???


I didnt think so...its painfully obvious with every single keystroke you make


For being the JREF "point man"...its incredible you have survived stepping on every claymore and trip wire that exists, something a good point man would never do.

 

[Boone 870]

Their wasnt anything to unearth...the hole was maybe 15 foot deep, there was nothing under that 15 foot...

The National Park Service disagrees with you.

"The crash and the subsequent investigation created a depression approximately 85 feet by 85 feet with a maximum depth of 27 feet...

...the plane impacted the relatively soft stripmine backfill, plowing to a depth of 30 ft, then collided with the remaining strip excavation rock highwall, causing the plane to explode.” Source

Where did you come up with "15 feet?"

 

[TK0001]

Truthers Handbook, page number K:

How to Generate 6 Pages of Posts From One Absurd Statement:

1. Page One, Post One: Make wild absurd claim

2. Page One (remainder) through Page Six: Quibble over the semantics of the questions directed back at you, which implore you to explain yourself.

2a. Never, ever expand your thoughts beyond your initial absurd claim.

3. Declare victory.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Think much???

Have an answer yet?

 

[johnny karate]

Hey Jonny Karate..


Think much???

I think enough to know that just because there isn't photographic evidence of an event doesn't mean it didn't take place. A thought process which clearly eludes you and RedIbis.

Now please, try and stay on topic.

Do you believe the crash site at Shanksville was faked, as Red's question implies?

 

[Shalamar]

One thing truthers don't keep into account -- and I know it's been said before -- is that high-speed impacts have extremely counter-intuitive effects. I recently watched a Mythbusters episode where they crushed a car with a rocket sled. I took special notice of this because the car they used was the exact model that I drive.

One would expect a car being crushed to crumple from a large mass into a smaller, denser one. However, that isn't what you see on the high-speed film. It showed no crumpling at all; the car just disappeared little by little, as if it were being consumed by the rocket sled.

Examination of the aftermath showed that it hadn't in fact disappeared, but was reduced to tiny pieces of wreckage strewn all about the area. It certainly didn't look like it used to be a complete car, but...there it was.

I saw that episode. I suspect that the truther terrorists will dismiss it saying 'Thats a Car! Not a Plane!'

 

[Toke]

Is it a bird? a plane? NO it´s SUPERMAN!!!!!

 

[BenBurch]

So, Red Ibis, its afternoon here in Chicago. Have you bothered my friends at UAL yet?

What did they tell you?

 

[aggle-rithm]

I saw that episode. I suspect that the truther terrorists will dismiss it saying 'Thats a Car! Not a Plane!'

Ironic, because a car is actually more crashworthy than a plane. Not much point in putting in "crumple zones" to absorb a 500 mph collision.

 

[jhunter1163]

Lanai - a small island where everyone knows everyone, population just over 3000. You get married there, and EVERYONE on the island knows about it, and may show up for your wedding

Sorry I couldn't make it. Mrs. JHunter1163 and I had to go to our son's graduation. We did send you a nice Cuisinart, though. Didn't you get it?

 

[1337m4n]

Why don't you phone up United Air Lines and ask them how much wreckage they received from 93?

UAL Corp.
1200 East Algonquin Road
Elk Grove Township, IL 60007

Phone: 847-700-4000
Fax: 847-700-2214

EDIT: And of course, report back.

You are cheating. You are asking RedIbis to do his own work instead of us doing everything for him.

I remember one time I asked RedIbis to do his own work. He responded by accusing me of what he called the "go-ask-him gambit". Gee. And here I thought RedIbis was actually interested in finding the truth about 9/11. But apparantly it is a "gambit" to suggest that he actually seek that truth himself, instead of us doing it for him. Right RedIbis?

 

[1337m4n]

The enormity of how stupid that analogy is is not something that I'm about to tackle at this hour.

Then maybe you'd like to explain why it's stupid for those of us obviously not as enlightened with infinite wisdom as you.

Preferably, before I report you for Rule 12.

 

[BenBurch]

I did half the work for him. All he needs to do is pick up the phone. Or FAX. Or send a polite letter.

And I already know what he will hear.

But if I just told him, he would say I am lying.

So this is truth he has to experience for himself.

If he is brave enough.

If he is honest enough.