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What did Democrats do wrong?

What did Democrats do wrong?

  • Didn't fight inflation enough.

    Votes: 13 14.9%

  • Didn't fight illegal immigration enough.

    Votes: 24 27.6%

  • Too much focus on abortion.

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Too much transgender stuff.

    Votes: 31 35.6%

  • America not ready for Progressive women leader.

    Votes: 31 35.6%

  • Should have kept Joe.

    Votes: 3 3.4%

  • Not enough focus on new jobs.

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Nothing, Trump cheated & played dirty!

    Votes: 16 18.4%

  • Didn't stop Gaza War.

    Votes: 9 10.3%

  • I can be Agent M.

    Votes: 6 6.9%
  • Total voters
    87
arthwollipot said:
Just popping back in to post this, which seems appropriate.


Transcript:
Skepchick: Why the Democrats Keep Leaning Right
Click to expand...
Her argument seems to be that support for immigration was only polled badly during 2024, so why run against it? Maybe because the election was in 2024? The Democrats should stake out the sensible center position, "Yes we have the right to deport people who are here illegally, but that doesn't mean that we stop random people on the street and ask for their papers." There are lots of voters who can be peeled away from the Republicans with that kind of message, but instead the Democrats seem to be articulating the message that the borders should be effectively open and anybody already here can stay.
 
wareyin said:
I'm not going to pretend that you actually think "caused to need to" is significantly different from "forced". If you create a situation where someone "needs" to make a specific choice, you’re describing a lack of agency. You're still trying to blame the Democratic party for a conscious decision made by individual voters.
Click to expand...
You're still not reading the post. The phrase after "need" is "to choose," and I'm not even the one asserting that. Here, I'll repost it:
Beelzebuddy said:
You're attributing the 2024 loss directly to those voters, are you not? As in, if the Democratic party had not caused those voters to need to choose between their party and their principles, they would have won?
Click to expand...
If you want to disagree, disagree. But at least understand what you're disagreeing with.

[ETA] Ugh I can't even quote myself accurately.
 
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arthwollipot said:
That doesn't surprise me at all. But it's true. Everyone outside the US (and obviously some in the US) can see it.
Click to expand...
Senator John Fetterman is what Democrats were mostly like a generation or less ago. Now he seems a lone voice of common sense.
 
dirtywick said:
biden was the incumbent and chose to run again, so when he dropped out that they didn’t have a primary was supposedly a major factor and anti-democratic. but, the gop was basically a show primary and trump bought out his comp by offering them cabinet spots to drop out and endorse him.
Click to expand...
Comparing these two pages head-to-head...

en.wikipedia.org

2024 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

en.wikipedia.org

2024 Republican Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

...seems fair to say the GOP had a more open and competitive process, but not by all that much.

dirtywick said:
why is that situation something that hurt the dems but not the gop
Click to expand...
That's a good question, and there isn't an obvious answer.

If I had to speculate, I'd say that the Democrats faced a much steeper opportunity cost due to foregoing a primary process in a year where incumbency itself turned out to be systematically disadvantageous across the globe. Dems had the chance to pick a relative outsider promising progressive reforms and instead chose more of the same.
 
it will always be more of the same.

But the casual voter does npt care about policy. They "felt" Biden was weak and Trump strong. And Harris was connected to Biden. That they could see. Not sure very many independents ever saw Harris Trump debate. Not even sure what they decide on rather than "feel." Trump felt bossy. Which to them was strong. Harris in the debate was a politician. Trump was not.
 
Brainster said:
Her argument seems to be that support for immigration was only polled badly during 2024, so why run against it? Maybe because the election was in 2024? The Democrats should stake out the sensible center position, "Yes we have the right to deport people who are here illegally, but that doesn't mean that we stop random people on the street and ask for their papers." There are lots of voters who can be peeled away from the Republicans with that kind of message, but instead the Democrats seem to be articulating the message that the borders should be effectively open and anybody already here can stay.
Click to expand...
You mean the thing they did? The position they have had for decades? The position both Biden and Harris touted every time they spoke on immigration? The very reasoning behind the Biden administration's immigration policies?
 
d4m10n said:
...seems fair to say the GOP had a more open and competitive process, but not by all that much.
Click to expand...
I'm going to amend this just a bit, because the final numbers don't tell the whole story.



This is what the GOP had in 2024 that the Democrats did not have. Their mistake was failing to choose one of these conventional conservative politicians who never supported the forcible reversal of the 2020 election result; Democrats' mistake was never giving their supporters any chance to really choose anyone other than the incumbent president & veep in an election cycle where incumbency turned out to be a major headwind across the free world.
 
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Beelzebuddy said:
You're still not reading the post. The phrase after "need" is "to choose," and I'm not even the one asserting that. Here, I'll repost it:

If you want to disagree, disagree. But at least understand what you're disagreeing with.

[ETA] Ugh I can't even quote myself accurately.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are claiming they were forced to choose, while whining that I said "forced" and not "caused to need to". :rolleyes:
 
d4m10n said:
Comparing these two pages head-to-head...

en.wikipedia.org

2024 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

en.wikipedia.org

2024 Republican Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

...seems fair to say the GOP had a more open and competitive process, but not by all that much.


That's a good question, and there isn't an obvious answer.

If I had to speculate, I'd say that the Democrats faced a much steeper opportunity cost due to foregoing a primary process in a year where incumbency itself turned out to be systematically disadvantageous across the globe. Dems had the chance to pick a relative outsider promising progressive reforms and instead chose more of the same.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, you are claiming that the Democrats did not have a primary in 2024? Are you sure about that? Or is this more of the amplification of that right wing nonsense that the DNC could have somehow overturned state level primary laws and rerun the primary months after it had occurred? Because I hate to be the one to break it to you, "enlightened centrist", but those people are not making that accusation in good faith.
 
d4m10n said:
I'm going to amend this just a bit, because the final numbers don't tell the whole story.



This is what the GOP had in 2024 that the Democrats did not have. Their mistake was failing to choose one of these conventional conservative politicians who never supported the forcible reversal of the 2020 election result; Democrats' mistake was never giving their supporters any chance to really choose anyone other than the incumbent president & veep in an election cycle where incumbency turned out to be a major headwind across the free world.
Click to expand...
This is just nonsense. I live in MTG's district. I just went to vote for her replacement last weekend. There were 17 different candidates to pick from, with multiple Republicans and multiple Democrats all vying for the seat. By what authority do you imagine that the DNC could have kept candidates who wanted to from competing in the 2024 primaries? Why did they not do so in this election? Hell, why did I have the choice to vote for another candidate in the 2024 Democratic primary, if as you say, the DNC gave me no chance to choose anyone else?

Or is this some cranially inverted plan where the DNC should have forced an unwilling candidate who you imagine would have been able to beat the incumbent to run?
 
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wareyin said:
Just to be clear, you are claiming that the Democrats did not have a primary in 2024?
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, I linked to both sets of primaries, wrote that one of them was "more open and competitive" than the other one, and am now beginning to question whether you actually read through an entire post before responding.
 
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