What did Democrats do wrong?

[Emily's Cat]

Can you hold your nose and vote for someone who doesn't share your hatred of trans people and the homeless?

I hate neither. Who do you hate?

 

[Donal]

I'm a Christian. I don't hate anyone. certainly not enough to sacrifice their lives and safety for my own temporary comfort. I guess you're just that callous with their lives, then.

And you didn't answer the question.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm a Christian. I don't hate anyone. certainly not enough to sacrifice their lives and safety for my own temporary comfort. I guess you're just that callous with their lives, then.

And you didn't answer the question.

When did you stop beating your wife?

 

[dirtywick]

I hate neither. Who do you hate?

presidents that try and prevent the next elected president from taking power by plotting an election fraud scheme. any thoughts on that and how it relates to jan 6?

 

[Donal]

When did you stop beating your wife?

What we do in the bedroom to keep the marriage spicy is no one else's business.

 

[d4m10n]

presidents that try and prevent the next elected president from taking power by plotting an election fraud scheme.

Hopefully the Democrats won't nominate someone like that in 2028.

*taps sig*

 

[dirtywick]

Hopefully the Democrats won't nominate someone like that in 2028.

*taps sig*

i agree.

anyway sigs don’t show up on mobile which i’m currently using. is it about butting in the middle of something and trying to tell me what i am allowed to talk about?

 

[d4m10n]

is it about butting in the middle of something and trying to tell me what i am allowed to talk about?

We have so many threads about what the Republicans are doing wrong and so few about what the Democrats could do better.

Trying to transform this thread from the latter into the former doesn't do anyone any favors.

 

[dirtywick]

We have so many threads about what the Republicans are doing wrong and so few about what the Democrats could do better.

Trying to transform this thread from the latter into the former doesn't do anyone any favors.

i’ve already explained to you why i think it’s on topic in a fairly long and detailed post a few pages back you never replied to, don’t really feel the need to do so again if that’s what i get for spending time explaining myself. emily’s cat also is avoiding answering a question

 

[Random]

We have so many threads about what the Republicans are doing wrong and so few about what the Democrats could do better.

Trying to transform this thread from the latter into the former doesn't do anyone any favors.

I just find the continuing insistence on focusing on Democratic faults in this thread takes you into weird places. Its like the losing team of a soccer match trying to figure out why they lost by watching a recording of the game, and to insure they focus on their own team and not their opponents, the recording they watch has the other team and the ball digitally removed.

A huge part of politics is reacting to your opponents moves and countermoves, as well as trying to react to and shape voter opinion. Trying to figure out what Democrats did wrong while ignoring what Republicans and voters were doing is just odd.

 

[dirtywick]

particularly, as it pertains to my reason the dems lost, which is two fold. first, their failure to prosecute trump for his involvement in election fraud. and two, failure to counter misinformation coming from the large and well funded and organized propaganda network the republicans control.

and so, in this thread, we have someone repeating talking misinformation points about the election fraud. so i find it relevant

 

[Emily's Cat]

I just find the continuing insistence on focusing on Democratic faults in this thread takes you into weird places. Its like the losing team of a soccer match trying to figure out why they lost by watching a recording of the game, and to insure they focus on their own team and not their opponents, the recording they watch has the other team and the ball digitally removed.

A huge part of politics is reacting to your opponents moves and countermoves, as well as trying to react to and shape voter opinion. Trying to figure out what Democrats did wrong while ignoring what Republicans and voters were doing is just odd.

I don't think you have to entirely ignore what Republicans did - but it should at least be in the context of how Democrats responded in a way that harmed them rather than helping them.

A lot of this thread (not all, of course) has essentially boiled down to either "The Dems did nothing wrong, it's all the Reps fault!" or "The Dems should have double and tripled down on the things that didn't work for them"

 

[d4m10n]

A huge part of politics is reacting to your opponents moves and countermoves, as well as trying to react to and shape voter opinion.

This would be a good argument if posters were trying to tell us about how the Democrats were outplayed by their political opponents (e.g. campaign strategy) but that isn't what I've been seeing at all.

failure to prosecute trump for his involvement in election fraud

Prosecution isn't a partisan role, or at least it really shouldn't be, despite current DOJ practice. Also, isn't there already a Jack Smith thread for this?

failure to counter misinformation coming from the large and well funded and organized propaganda network the republicans control

Well at least this is something we can ask Democrats to improve on next time.

 

[dirtywick]

Prosecution isn't a partisan role, or at least it really shouldn't be, despite current DOJ practice. Also, isn't there already a Jack Smith thread for this?

it shouldn’t be, but that’s not the world we lived in then or now.

this will be the last time i’m discussing this part with you. but i want to make it clear to you that emily’s cat made claims about jan 6 that were misinformation and continues to refuse to acknowledge the existence of the evidence that refutes them. if she wishes to make those claims in that thread she can, but i’m not going to stop calling her out in the thread she made them despite finding time to bicker with other posters because you’d rather talk about something else. go ahead and talk about something else, what i’m doing doesn’t matter in that regard anyway.

Well at least this is something we can ask Democrats to improve on next time.

they need to do that or they’ll keep losing. if everything they say and do is distorted and amplified, stances on issues aren’t even real. so it doesn’t matter what they are imo

 

[d4m10n]

i'm sure there's an argument to be made that single issue pro israel voters skew pretty heavily trump regardless of what kamala did.

Given the extent to which the U.S. has come in hard on Israel's side against the Axis of Resistance^WP—despite the lack of casus belli and upside for the Americans—it is difficult to blame those single issue voters in retrospect.

For the sake of staying on topic, I cannot think of any way Democrats could work this issue around to their advantage. Maybe the peaceniks can start making dire predictions?

 

[dirtywick]

Given the extent to which the U.S. has come in hard on Israel's side against the Axis of Resistance^WP—despite the lack of casus belli and upside for the Americans—it is difficult to blame those single issue voters in retrospect.

For the sake of staying on topic, I cannot think of any way Democrats could work this issue around to their advantage. Maybe the peaceniks can start making dire predictions?

i think they could maybe offer a home for the pro palestine single issue voters. will the republicans distort and amplify that into a pro hamas stance? of course, but they're pretty likely to try and paint the dems as left wing extremists no matter what anyway.

 

[Random]

i think they could maybe offer a home for the pro palestine single issue voters. will the republicans distort and amplify that into a pro hamas stance? of course, but they're pretty likely to try and paint the dems as left wing extremists no matter what anyway.

Probably the single biggest mistake Democrats make time and time again is backing away from popular issues for fear of how Republicans will portray them as unhinged radicals. Guys, the Republicans are going to do that anyway...

 

[johnny karate]

Sure, if we're playing a game of tit for tat. If we're trying to understand why the Democrats lost in 2024, it's a distraction.

Also if we're trying to understand which 2024 mistakes not to repeat in 2028.

Have either one of you provided a thesis that hasn’t been proven wrong?

If not, then I’m not sure how hard you’re trying.

 

[Segnosaur]

Probably the single biggest mistake Democrats make time and time again is backing away from popular issues for fear of how Republicans will portray them as unhinged radicals. Guys, the Republicans are going to do that anyway...

I am not saying you are automatically wrong in your statement. (Yes, republicans will spin things negatively regardless of what the demicrats do.) However, I think things might be a bit more nuanced. There are a couple of issues here...

First of all, the concept of "popular issue" is rather... fuzzy.

Take for example health care. Tell people "medicare for all/everyone covered" and the majority will cheer, because everyone likes the idea of everyone getting medical coverage. But, start telling people "we will get rid of all private insurers" and all of a sudden lots of people will change their minds. "I want everyone covered, but I like my own insurance plan".

Or take trans rights. There are polls that show the majority of people want them protected from job and housing discrimination. But, that support drops when it comes to issues like competing in sports. So if they come out in favor of "supporting trans people", its hard to say whether it is a popular or unpopular opinion.

Secondly, there are a lot of political calculations here...

Does "backing away" from a popular issue mean doing a 180 and coming out against it, or just not making it a campaign focus? Will backing away from an issue actually cause the party to lose votes or is it an issue where people will stick with the democrats anyways? And if some people do drop their support, how many and is their a potential to make up the votes elsewhere.

The ultimate goal is for the Democrats to win election, since the losing party can't really implement ANY agenda if they are on the outside looking in. Trying to be on the "right side" of the issues, but doing so in a way that causes you to lose elections, will cause problems.

 

[johnny karate]

I am not saying you are automatically wrong in your statement. (Yes, republicans will spin things negatively regardless of what the demicrats do.) However, I think things might be a bit more nuanced. There are a couple of issues here...

First of all, the concept of "popular issue" is rather... fuzzy.

Take for example health care. Tell people "medicare for all/everyone covered" and the majority will cheer, because everyone likes the idea of everyone getting medical coverage. But, start telling people "we will get rid of all private insurers" and all of a sudden lots of people will change their minds. "I want everyone covered, but I like my own insurance plan".

Or take trans rights. There are polls that show the majority of people want them protected from job and housing discrimination. But, that support drops when it comes to issues like competing in sports. So if they come out in favor of "supporting trans people", its hard to say whether it is a popular or unpopular opinion.

Secondly, there are a lot of political calculations here...

Does "backing away" from a popular issue mean doing a 180 and coming out against it, or just not making it a campaign focus? Will backing away from an issue actually cause the party to lose votes or is it an issue where people will stick with the democrats anyways? And if some people do drop their support, how many and is their a potential to make up the votes elsewhere.

The ultimate goal is for the Democrats to win election, since the losing party can't really implement ANY agenda if they are on the outside looking in. Trying to be on the "right side" of the issues, but doing so in a way that causes you to lose elections, will cause problems.

"Popular issues" don't become popular in a vacuum. They become popular because politicians with conviction make them popular by staking out a position and defending it.

We've seen this play out in politics time and time again.

One of the mistakes that Democrats made - and continue to make - is abandoning this principle and following public opinion rather than shaping it, while Republicans wage endless propaganda campaigns to shape it.

Trans athletes are an excellent example off this. Trans people have been competing in sports for decades, but it suddenly became a hot button issue in the last few years because Republicans made it one, not because it happened organically.

Look at what Mamdani did in New York. He didn't run away from or hedge on the trans issue. He got right out in front of it and took a stance. If the claims about the importance of this issue were true, that should have hurt him in the election, and it obviously didn't.