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What did Democrats do wrong?

What did Democrats do wrong?

  • Didn't fight inflation enough.

    Votes: 12 15.4%
  • Didn't fight illegal immigration enough.

    Votes: 22 28.2%
  • Too much focus on abortion.

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Too much transgender stuff.

    Votes: 28 35.9%
  • America not ready for Progressive women leader.

    Votes: 26 33.3%
  • Should have kept Joe.

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • Not enough focus on new jobs.

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Nothing, Trump cheated & played dirty!

    Votes: 14 17.9%
  • Didn't stop Gaza War.

    Votes: 8 10.3%
  • I can be Agent M.

    Votes: 6 7.7%

  • Total voters
    78
I suspect its based on an observation of reality and history. How precise do you want Tragic to be in estimating the percentage of folks that abuse power when give it?
It's the standard comment of people who, whenever it's pointed out what the system does, claims that the problem is human nature.
'Alas, there's nothing we can do about it!'
TragicMonkey is usually better than that.
Claiming that it's a "sad fact" only makes it worse. It's almost as bad as claiming that it's "an observation of reality and history."
 
It's the standard comment of people who, whenever it's pointed out what the system does, claims that the problem is human nature.
'Alas, there's nothing we can do about it!'
TragicMonkey is usually better than that.
Claiming that it's a "sad fact" only makes it worse. It's almost as bad as claiming that it's "an observation of reality and history."
LOL. Is there a thread in which you participate where you don't get mad and tell people what they should and shouldn't say?
 
You really shouldn't say that...
Reminds of a thing years ago, I knew this fella in the Navy. The nicest thing anyone ever said about him was, "you really shouldn't say that" Which was in response to the comment, "If he was my father I would have killed myself too."

ETA, I don't mean to imply that anyone in this thread is as bad as that guy was. Just something I will never forget. The dude, we called him Wingnut, was so universally hated that the nicest thing anyone had to say about him was you shouldn't say one of the worst things I've ever heard said about a person.
 
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Elections will be trumpian from now on. You cannot go deep into issues. if it takes you more that two sentences to explain what the direct bnefit to the voter is, they tune out. So price of eggs, jobs (MAGA, with kick out foreigners to improve jobs...a bit of a longer than two sentences), arresting criminal foreigners, all simple concepts. Democrats themselves understand what is being sold, but still seem to want more trumpian messages. "save democracy" is certainly one, but does not address MAGA folks at all.
Recent polls show that Democrats view their party as weak. An Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll in July revealed that about 1 in 5 Democrats described their party in a positive light.

And a poll by the Democratic super PAC Unite the Country obtained by The Hill last month showed that voters perceived the Democratic Party as “out of touch,” “woke” and “weak.”

The struggle to connect with voters has been a running theme for months, with even Democrats acknowledging that they have yet to put forward a compelling message.

 
LOL. Is there a thread in which you participate where you don't get mad and tell people what they should and shouldn't say?
There is, but what I'm objecting to in the case of your own "The sad fact is that some/many/most people abuse whatever power they get in order to maximize their own advantage even at the expense of others" and ahhell's "I suspect its based on an observation of reality and history" is that you both try to turn what appears to be your core beliefs into respectively a fact and an observation of reality without the least bit of documentation or actual fact.
And yet, I am the one who is accused of telling people what they should and shouldn't say!

So for all I care, feel free to stick with feeling sad about what you claim is reality. I just don't share your idea that what you claim to be a fact is an actual fact.
 
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There is, but what I'm objecting to in the case of your own "The sad fact is that some/many/most people abuse whatever power they get in order to maximize their own advantage even at the expense of others" and ahhell's "I suspect its based on an observation of reality and history" is that you both try to turn what appears to be your core beliefs into respectively a fact and an observation of reality without the least bit of documentation or actual fact.
And yet, I am the one who is accused of telling people what they should and shouldn't say!

So for all I care, feel free to stick with feeling sad about what you claim is reality. I just don't share your idea that what you claim to be a fact is an actual fact.
You don't believe that power corrupts? An interesting take. What is your basis for that claim? Shall we trade examples by listing everyone in history who's ever held any kind of power, assessing whether they abused it or not, and then adding up the totals? Does the amount of power and the degree of abuse matter, or just the individual totals? Does Mrs Jones the sweet head librarian cancel out Emperor Tiberius?

I think you're just trying to pick fights where nobody else would. I believe power tends to corrupt. What a wacky, outlandish belief! Perhaps you're stunned by how novel it is.
 
You don't believe that power corrupts? An interesting take. What is your basis for that claim? Shall we trade examples by listing everyone in history who's ever held any kind of power, assessing whether they abused it or not, and then adding up the totals? Does the amount of power and the degree of abuse matter, or just the individual totals? Does Mrs Jones the sweet head librarian cancel out Emperor Tiberius?

I think you're just trying to pick fights where nobody else would. I believe power tends to corrupt. What a wacky, outlandish belief! Perhaps you're stunned by how novel it is.

I don't think it does. Not completely.

I think those that seek power and great wealth are already mean, greedy and venal. I think one has to be that way to get to the top of a tree filled with equally mean, greedy and venal people. And they, almost all, lie, cheat and steal to get where they want to be.
 
I don't think it does. Not completely.

That's why it's so insidious: it's rarely completely. Just a little bit at a time. An extra-long lunch for the new supervisor. A handled parking ticket for the city employee. A special consideration in admission for dean's friend's kid. Little things, little steps on the road of corruption which leads always downward.

I think those that seek power and great wealth are already mean, greedy and venal. I think one has to be that way to get to the top of a tree filled with equally mean, greedy and venal people. And they, almost all, lie, cheat and steal to get where they want to be.

I agree. But I think any honest people who find themselves in that tree are going to be tempted to join in the misdeeds, and a lot of them will succumb.
 
That's why it's so insidious: it's rarely completely. Just a little bit at a time. An extra-long lunch for the new supervisor. A handled parking ticket for the city employee. A special consideration in admission for dean's friend's kid. Little things, little steps on the road of corruption which leads always downward.



I agree. But I think any honest people who find themselves in that tree are going to be tempted to join in the misdeeds, and a lot of them will succumb.

I don't think that's actually true. I think the honest people either drop out or are forced out of the race. At least, those that would remain honest do. Some (many??) would behave as you suggest and join in the great orgy of greed and corruption.
 
I don't think that's actually true. I think the honest people either drop out or are forced out of the race. At least, those that would remain honest do. Some (many??) would behave as you suggest and join in the great orgy of greed and corruption.
Everybody's honest until they aren't, and at that point we can say they weren't an honest person all along. I don't think honesty is an inherent characteristic so much as it is a behavior, which is subject therefore to change at any point.
 
Everybody's honest until they aren't, and at that point we can say they weren't an honest person all along. I don't think honesty is an inherent characteristic so much as it is a behavior, which is subject therefore to change at any point.

Well that's depressing.

I think we probably all like to think we'd remain strong and emphatic and moral if we gained great wealth and power. Perhaps we (and by we, I maybe mean me...) are dead wrong.
 
Well that's depressing.

I think we probably all like to think we'd remain strong and emphatic and moral if we gained great wealth and power. Perhaps we (and by we, I maybe mean me...) are dead wrong.
I am not sure if I would remain strong, empathic and moral if I gained great wealth and power. I would however, be willing to test myself this way to know for sure...
 
Came across an interesting post about the "representation gap" between voters and legislators on immigration issues today:


I think it should be viewable without a subscription, but I'm not entirely sure.

In that post, the author attempts to apply the lessons of this new paper to the U.S., which sounds like a leap but the author of the original paper did say he was seeing similar effects on "nearly all cultural issues...in nearly all countries" studied.

On [cultural] questions, incumbent M.P.s are significantly to the left of the population average. Or maybe a better way to think about this is that in most countries, there is a large minority bloc of voters with extreme right-wing views that are echoed by few if any M.P.s, especially from mainstream parties.​
In proportional systems, that creates an easy space for new parties to fill. In the U.S., it created space for Donald Trump to remake the G.O.P. I don’t think “the center-left should become more right-wing on crime and immigration” is the only possible conclusion to draw from this data, but I think that everyone ought to take the data seriously and consider the tradeoffs involved in their own choices.​

Many will say Democrats need to hold their ground on cultural questions, even if this causes them to drift ever further towards the purist stances of lefty activist groups and further away from the views of median voters. On this point, I must remain skeptical.
 
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Came across an interesting post about the "representation gap" between voters and legislators on immigration issues today:


I think it should be viewable without a subscription, but I'm not entirely sure.

In that post, the author attempts to apply the lessons of this new paper to the U.S., which sounds like a leap but the author of the original paper did say he was seeing similar effects on "nearly all cultural issues...in nearly all countries" studied.

On [cultural] questions, incumbent M.P.s are significantly to the left of the population average. Or maybe a better way to think about this is that in most countries, there is a large minority bloc of voters with extreme right-wing views that are echoed by few if any M.P.s, especially from mainstream parties.​
In proportional systems, that creates an easy space for new parties to fill. In the U.S., it created space for Donald Trump to remake the G.O.P. I don’t think “the center-left should become more right-wing on crime and immigration” is the only possible conclusion to draw from this data, but I think that everyone ought to take the data seriously and consider the tradeoffs involved in their own choices.​

Many will say Democrats need to hold their ground on cultural questions, even if this causes them to drift ever further towards the purist stances of lefty activist groups and further away from the views of median voters. On this point, I must remain skeptical.
It's really a question of keeping the Liberal/Democratic coalition together. A major part of Conservative political strategy is to attack the leftmost members of the Liberal coalition in the hopes that the rest of the coalition will expel them. Once this is done they change targets to the next leftmost part of the coalition and repeat the process. Once this has been done a few times, the Liberal coalition is broken up and politically ineffective.

Democrats throwing out every member of their party that Republicans complain about is not a path to strategic victory.
 

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