What did Democrats do wrong?

[Louden Wilde]

From Bret Stephens post-mortem in the NYT (entitled "A Party of Prigs and Pontificators Suffers a Humiliating Defeat"):

Yet when Americans saw and experienced things otherwise (as extensive survey data showed they did) the characteristic liberal response was to treat the complaints not only as baseless but also as immoral. The effect was to insult voters while leaving Democrats blind to the legitimacy of the issues....

The dismissiveness with which liberals treated these concerns was part of something else: dismissiveness toward the moral objections many Americans have to various progressive causes. Concerned about gender transitions for children or about biological males playing on girls’ sports teams? You’re a transphobe. Dismayed by tedious, mandatory and frequently counterproductive D.E.I. seminars that treat white skin as almost inherently problematic? You’re racist. Irritated by new terminology that is supposed to be more inclusive but feels as if it’s borrowing a page from “1984”? That’s doubleplusungood.

The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency.

 

[mumblethrax]

Another "centrist" who was a Republican until recently, and is still a neoconservative, giving advice to liberals that just happens to involve acquiescing to conservatives on basically everything and assiduously avoiding saying things that are true because it might hurt feelings.

No thanks.

Voters didn't vote on DEI or trans issues. Polling data makes it pretty clear that voters wish politicians on all sides would shut up about trans issues, and focus on things that matter. Trump's attack ads on the topic weren't well received by voters.

These post-mortems would be more interesting if they were pre-mortems. Stephens was declaring Trump completely finished a couple of years ago. Now he has a deep understanding of Trump's appeal in light of the folly of left-wing overreach. Whatever.

 

[Minoosh]

Ok, well in that case, the number of voters for trump were almost the same as 2020 (~74mil), while the numbers for Harris were remarkably lower compared to 2020. Doesn't that indicate that not enough democrats turning out to vote was the deciding factor?

No, to tell it would have to be broken down by state. Which I did but don't have handy. It would have mattered. Fewer votes in urban areas that lean D, Iargely, but this was a quick look.

 

[AmyStrange]

No, to tell it would have to be broken down by state. Which I did but don't have handy. It would have mattered. Fewer votes in urban areas that lean D, Iargely, but this was a quick look.

So, what you're saying is that 10 million less votes for Harris (according to new number totals) had nothing to do with her losing, right? Or, are you saying that all those missing votes were republicans that decided to stay home and not vote?


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[Thermal]

So, what you're saying is that 14 million less votes for Harris had nothing to do with her losing, right?


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In fairness, it's about 10 million now that the final tally is pretty much complete, per AP as of a few minutes ago. Still nothing to sneeze at.

Eta: and the missing votes didn’t go to Trump, either. His final tally is almost exactly the same comparing 2020 to 2024 (74.2m and 74.8m, respectively)

 

[AmyStrange]

In fairness, it's about 10 million now that the final tally is pretty much complete, per AP as of a few minutes ago. Still nothing to sneeze at.

Eta: and the missing votes didn’t go to Trump, either. His final tally is almost exactly the same comparing 2020 to 2024

Well then, if the 10 million weren't dems, then wouldn't that mean they were all republicans who stayed home and decided not to vote?


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[Thermal]

Well then, if the 10 million weren't dems, then wouldn't that mean they were all republicans who stayed home and decided not to vote?


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Doubt it. Apoliticals who said "hell no" to Cheeto Benito.

 

[Samson]

If 5% of dems switched to republican as per exit polls that is around 3.5m votes, or a 7 million swing.
What is the figure for Republican to Democrat?

 

[Thermal]

If 5% of dems switched to republican as per exit polls that is around 3.5m votes, or a 7 million swing.
What is the figure for Republican to Democrat?

? But that didn't happen. Democrat voters went down over twice as high as your 5% estimate, and Republican stayed the same. That 10%+ Dem voters simply didn't show up at game time.

 

[AmyStrange]

If 5% of dems switched to republican as per exit polls that is around 3.5m votes, or a 7 million swing.
What is the figure for Republican to Democrat?

Wouldn't that mean more votes for trump compared to 2020?


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[The Great Zaganza]

not if many people stayed home

 

[Samson]

not if many people stayed home

They did.
I know it is painful to confront, but Kara Dansky is the most potent on the subject of trans.
I will say no more because she said it all in open letters to Kamala Harris and her sister.

Here is a powerful interview

 

[Tero]

So, what you're saying is that 10 million less votes for Harris (according to new number totals) had nothing to do with her losing, right? Or, are you saying that all those missing votes were republicans that decided to stay home and not vote?


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We got bombarded with polls every week. People looked at those polls. If they lived in a blue state, they knew Harris would win their state. Why show up to vote? The "poll news" was continuously about battle ground states. They got a lot of money for that. Even from people who did not vote. Trump won 3 states due to various groups, such as young males, Joe Rogan fans ets. And because Harris is a minority woman. She did not look like tha alpha male. Neither did Walz.

 

[Ziggurat]

And because Harris is a minority woman. She did not look like tha alpha male. Neither did Walz.

Walz didn't look like the "alpha male" (which is really just shorthand for someone you would want as a leader) despite being white and male. Have you considered the possibility that Harris didn't look like the "alpha male" not because of her skin color or sex, but because of some other factor?

Harris bombed when she ran in the Democratic primary in 2016. I have a hard time thinking that the party that nominated both Obama and Hillary turned their noses up at her because of her sex or race. She was a bad candidate. Always has been.

 

[theprestige]

True, but that presupposes a fetus is an actual human rather than just a potential human?

You keep missing the point. This thread isn't about debating whether a human fetus is a human life. It's about the Democrats failing to convince Americans that it isn't, but still hammering on the issue in an election year anyway.

Of course, interestingly enough, some folks have been convicted a killing a woman and her fetus, like for example Scott Peterson.

A POV Democrats have consistently failed to respect, let alone account for in their attempts to win this election.

Personally, I think NOT having sex is also killing a potential human, but that's because I'm weird.

And this view helps Democrats win elections how, exactly?

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm not a democrat, but I don't think that's their position at all. Some may believe that, but the way you put it makes it seem like ALL democrats believe this, and that's where I think you're wrong.

I suppose I haven't been sufficiently clear on this, but this is the party position, or more importantly for this thread, the Harris campaign position. The fact that even a lot of democratic voters don't share that position is precisely why it's bad politics.

 

[AmyStrange]

You keep missing the point. This thread isn't about debating whether a human fetus is a human life. It's about the Democrats failing to convince Americans that it isn't, but still hammering on the issue in an election year anyway.

A POV Democrats have consistently failed to respect, let alone account for in their attempts to win this election.

And this view helps Democrats win elections how, exactly?

You obviously keep missing the point also, because we're not talking about future elections, we're talking about what went wrong this time, right?

I think abortion was one of the things that might've had something to do with it, but I still think the fact that many dems stayed home probably had more to do with it than anything else.


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[AmyStrange]

I suppose I haven't been sufficiently clear on this, but this is the party position, or more importantly for this thread, the Harris campaign position. The fact that even a lot of democratic voters don't share that position is precisely why it's bad politics.

Maybe because a large percentage of dems don't believe in the "party" position is why Harris lost or why many didn't bother to vote.

BTW, you're quoting the wrong person. It wasn't suren who said that. It was me.


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[theprestige]

You obviously keep missing the point also, because we're not talking about future elections, we're talking about what went wrong this time, right?

Well then I'm saying that your view, to the extent that it was reflected in the zeitgeist at all, is something that went wrong for the Democrats in this election.

I think abortion was one of the things that might've had something to do with it, but I still think the fact that many dems stayed home probably had more to do with it than anything else.

Yes, the Democrats not getting enough votes certainly had a lot to do with the Democrats not getting enough votes. I agree with that.

 

[AmyStrange]

Well then I'm saying that your view, to the extent that it was reflected in the zeitgeist at all, is something that went wrong for the Democrats in this election.

Yes, the Democrats not getting enough votes certainly had a lot to do with the Democrats not getting enough votes. I agree with that.

Phew, at least we can agree on something, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on all the rest.

But that's what makes politics, court cases, and horse racing so interesting, right?


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