Visa express program: Just another coincidence?

[~enigma~]

I am waiting for a rational fact-based explanation for the State Dept implementing this program, in this country, and in this context.

That is exactly what you were asked. I'm waiting for you to quit acting dumb and answer.

Can you copy it, because I'm not sure which one you're talking about. But I don't understand your point.

No I will not do your work for you. Read the article you linked to. Read the 4th paragraph onwards.

The official reason they implemented it is they wanted to facilitate the visa procedures for tourists and workers

Keep going....there is more to it. What did the 4th paragraph say and what are the things being minimized? There is a word the morons at LCF use alot and at the moment you are a perfect example of that word...OBTUSE.
Was there another reason? Well that's the question.

Now stop playing Q, ang get started on A.

It is you who is going to answer and until you do the only conclusion I and most people here will make is that you and your ilk can care less about truth but only care about accusing the government about 9/11.

 

[~enigma~]

On the second part, I think that the warnings were obvious, PDB, specific warnings from foreign agencies, Clarke crying to meet with Rice, Cheney and others, and of course ex post facts that 9/11 was THE thing this administratio needed in order to impose war in IQ, Patriot act, massive intervention in the World etc...

Wow...backing off your visa express stupidity?

 

[busherie]

busherie, are you claiming that the visa program was designed specifically to get 3 hijackers into the US?

I am not claiming it was designed to get 3 terrorists in the US. It was originally a plan to facilitate tourists and migrants visas.

But my claim is that by doing so the administration knew that it would be easier for terrorists to get in as well...

It's not only "oh they were incompetent, didn't know about the high level of threats, coincidence, Saudi Arabia is our friend".

 

[R.Mackey]

That's completely daft. Of Course they know relaxing entry laws makes it easier for criminals to get in.

By that logic, we shouldn't let anybody in, ever, for any reason. Heck, we should start deporting people. The fewer people here, the better, right?

Is that what you propose?

 

[WildCat]

I am not claiming it was designed to get 3 terrorists in the US. It was originally a plan to facilitate tourists and migrants visas.

So why post it as one of your 9/11 "coincidences"?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I am not claiming it was designed to get 3 terrorists in the US. It was originally a plan to facilitate tourists and migrants visas.

But my claim is that by doing so the administration knew that it would be easier for terrorists to get in as well...

In other words... "I'm going to leave the key to my front door under the Welcome mat. If someone happens to find it, use it, and murder my children.... Oops! I'll just start breaking into houses in the next town over."

Is that it?

 

[332nd]

I am not claiming it was designed to get 3 terrorists in the US. It was originally a plan to facilitate tourists and migrants visas.

But my claim is that by doing so the administration knew that it would be easier for terrorists to get in as well...

It's not only "oh they were incompetent, didn't know about the high level of threats, coincidence, Saudi Arabia is our friend".

So they did this hoping that the people involved in the 9/11 plot (that they knew was in the works) would come come into the country because they made it easier? If they knew this was going to happen why did they let Bush sit there in the school like an idiot holding a copy of my pet goat when they could have had him rip off his shirt exposing a big B on on his set of onesy tights and say "Sorry kids there's evil doin's afoot!" and rush off to something that looked heroic.

 

[busherie]

That's completely daft. Of Course they know relaxing entry laws makes it easier for criminals to get in.

By that logic, we shouldn't let anybody in, ever, for any reason. Heck, we should start deporting people. The fewer people here, the better, right?

Is that what you propose?

Of course not. I'm saying that in the early summer of 2001, implementing such a program was at least completely crazy. It was perfectly clear that Al Qaida had strong saudi links and they should not pay less attention to saudi's applicants. Actually the exact opposit.

Of course, you can't be a 100% sure. But what they did was the last thing to do.

That is why ask if it's just another coincidence. Was this program, on the contrary, accepted on purpose? - facilitating the work of the terrorists?

 

[busherie]

So they did this hoping that the people involved in the 9/11 plot (that they knew was in the works) would come come into the country because they made it easier? If they knew this was going to happen why did they let Bush sit there in the school like an idiot holding a copy of my pet goat when they could have had him rip off his shirt exposing a big B on on his set of onesy tights and say "Sorry kids there's evil doin's afoot!" and rush off to something that looked heroic.

Because Bush is NOT the guy who was behind this. Andrew Card was holding a paper where he wrote "dont' move". The idea was Bush was to be kept away from the decision making process while the attacks were unfolding.

These guys aren't stupid. Cheney was in the PEOC, watching everything unfold, thinking: that's it. We got it. Our new pearl harbour.

 

[WildCat]

That is why ask if it's just another coincidence. Was this program, on the contrary, accepted on purpose? - facilitating the work of the terrorists?

Now you're back to claiming it was implemented to get 3 9/11 hijackers into the country?

And does this mean that you accept that 19 suicide hijackers took over 4 planes on 9/11 and crashed 2 of them into the WTC, one into the Pentagon, and one crashed in a field outside of Shanksville, PA?

 

[busherie]

In other words... "I'm going to leave the key to my front door under the Welcome mat. If someone happens to find it, use it, and murder my children.... Oops! I'll just start breaking into houses in the next town over."

Is that it?

Something like that, except apparently the neocons don't think the US citizens are their children. Because you don't let yourchildren ne murdered to reap off you neighbours.

 

[WildCat]

Because Bush is NOT the guy who was behind this. Andrew Card was holding a paper where he wrote "dont' move". The idea was Bush was to be kept away from the decision making process while the attacks were unfolding.

These guys aren't stupid. Cheney was in the PEOC, watching everything unfold, thinking: that's it. We got it. Our new pearl harbour.

You're now going to claim that Cheney was in the PEOC when the WTC was hit?

 

[R.Mackey]

Of course not. I'm saying that in the early summer of 2001, implementing such a program was at least completely crazy. It was perfectly clear that Al Qaida had strong saudi links and they should not pay less attention to saudi's applicants. Actually the exact opposit.

Of course, you can't be a 100% sure. But what they did was the last thing to do.

That is why ask if it's just another coincidence. Was this program, on the contrary, accepted on purpose? - facilitating the work of the terrorists?

Stupid.

It was clear in the 1990's that Saudi Arabia had connections to Al-Qaeda.

It was clear that Spain had ties to ETA, the UK had ties to the IRA. By your logic, these countries also shouldn't have been part of the "Express Visa" programme.

Your whole world view is so utterly simplistic as to be worthless. No matter what input you give it, you come out saying "9/11 Was An Inside Job."

In any case, it doesn't matter. You've now abandoned your argument that it was a "suspicious coincidence," moved away from being any "coincidence" at all, and are now arguing politics. Take it to the Politics forum if you want to argue the case for isolationism.

 

[busherie]

Now you're back to claiming it was implemented to get 3 9/11 hijackers into the country?

And does this mean that you accept that 19 suicide hijackers took over 4 planes on 9/11 and crashed 2 of them into the WTC, one into the Pentagon, and one crashed in a field outside of Shanksville, PA?

Not really back to i. You know things are never simple. the program was actually first designed under Clinton. The problem is "was it not helpful to implement in in order to increase the probability the attacks succeed?"

And yes, I'm a true LIHOP supporter. I don't think it was possible to do such things as putting explosives in the towers. (altough for WTC7 there is still room for interrogation IMHO). The attacks happened roughly as the commission puts it. The real questions are: what happened at the highest levels of the US administration in the months preceding the attacks?

 

[332nd]

Because Bush is NOT the guy who was behind this. Andrew Card was holding a paper where he wrote "dont' move". The idea was Bush was to be kept away from the decision making process while the attacks were unfolding.

These guys aren't stupid. Cheney was in the PEOC, watching everything unfold, thinking: that's it. We got it. Our new pearl harbour.

Then why did you bring Bush up?

And the attacks happened. And surely they've had a heaby burden since then. But, after all, Bush sleeps very well at night even though US citizens and troops, and thousands of civilians around the world die (partly) because of them.

Where are you getting this thing about Andrew Card?

At any rate who said Bush had to be involved in the decision making process? All they had to do was make it look like he was going off to do something. You're saying that they instead made him look stupid and very un-POTUS like? Why?

 

[busherie]

You're now going to claim that Cheney was in the PEOC when the WTC was hit?

Wait, of course not. i'm pretty sure he was in the PEOC well before 0958; probably 0920.

Stupid.

It was clear in the 1990's that Saudi Arabia had connections to Al-Qaeda.

It was clear that Spain had ties to ETA, the UK had ties to the IRA. By your logic, these countries also shouldn't have been part of the "Express Visa" programme.

Your whole world view is so utterly simplistic as to be worthless. No matter what input you give it, you come out saying "9/11 Was An Inside Job."

In any case, it doesn't matter. You've now abandoned your argument that it was a "suspicious coincidence," moved away from being any "coincidence" at all, and are now arguing politics. Take it to the Politics forum if you want to argue the case for isolationism.

I maintain it: it's obviously a very suspicious coincidence that this program could be implemented in this context and in this contry.

No, it was not that clear in the 1990s Al Qaida was capable to strike in the US (which is a lot more dangerous than having attacks abroad). And designing a program does not mean political will to implement it, especially when the context has changed and you start getting all this intel saudis wanna hit "in US".

Not really "an inside job" since the job was undertaken by the terrorists. Allowing it to happen, that's what the neocons (to simplify) did.

This has nothing to do with isolationism. You go from an extreme to another.

ETA and IRA are completeley different issues: are they "determined to strike in the US"?

Busherie

 

[~enigma~]

It was originally a plan to facilitate tourists and migrants visas.

Simplistic bs...could I expect anymore from a woo?

 

[Gravy]

I am waiting for a rational fact-based explanation for the State Dept implementing this program, in this country, and in this context.

Why are you unable to figure that out? Saudi Arabia was a major ally and trading partner. The U.S. knew of problems with the Saudi passport office for years but didn't do anything about them.

So was the Clinton administration seeking to allow terrorists in?

Well?

Anyway, the only thing the U.S. consular offices did in terms of terrorism was to check names against a watch list. The same watch list was used in the express program. The terrorists who entered the U.S. weren't on that list. Five other conspirators were denied visas for different reasons. How does any of this help your claim?

Furthermore, what is your overall belief concerning 9/11?

It was horrible.

 

[hellaeon]

* breathe *

Mr Busherie, you think life in the world of politics (and in general it seems) is just yes or no. Entirely planned. No surprises.

Rather then rational that 9/11 was done by cunning terrorists, you think its more logical the US Government or NWO or Jews or whoever the plonk decided to spend years and years and years planning this ultra project, costing trillions of dollars, in doing so, implemented purposeful plans like the visa one for no other reason then to aid 20% of the 9/11 terrorists to get in the country. Though they setup this visa plan 20 years before, in case people like you may (wow your such a sleuth!) discover a link between its implementation and 9/11! But little did they know! your so cunning too! Forget tourism, trade, international agreements...no no...it was part of the ultra scheme, uncovered by people like you! Let me guess, they put explosives in the concrete in the towers?

Don't waste my time with such stupid straw clasping. Look at yourself in the mirror and be ashamed.

Then walk out the door, breathe some air and see life exists outside a monitor or TV.

 

[busherie]

Then why did you bring Bush up?


Where are you getting this thing about Andrew Card?

At any rate who said Bush had to be involved in the decision making process? All they had to do was make it look like he was going off to do something. You're saying that they instead made him look stupid and very un-POTUS like? Why?

And what if he had, by any chance, succesfully stopped the attacks? It was not sure at the time that the air force could not shoot the planes down.