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Visa express program: Just another coincidence?

Gravy said:
Jason Bermas, who wraps himself in the flag and claims to stand for freedom and against the military-industrial complex, proposed a solution to this problem: militarize the U.S. borders. All of them. Seriously.
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Some folks just don't get the USA. That's a big part of "the problem," both domestically and overseas.
 
Gravy said:
Jason Bermas, who wraps himself in the flag and claims to stand for freedom and against the military-industrial complex, proposed a solution to this problem: militarize the U.S. borders. All of them. Seriously.
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Surely this is a stupid solution. I think the US have gone so far in the wrong diection they have forgotten the real roots of terrorism.

There is a solution against terrorism. It did not always exist, it can disappear. the roots are well-known:

- misery, unemployement
- the fact that the US and western governements support governments that are undemocratic and mistreat their people: Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc etc
- the israelo palestinian conflict that is a cancer and moral breeding ground for misled young people from these countries.

And we CAN tackle these issues. I mean, just think about the infamous amount of money spent on this stupid wars.

Of course there wil always be some crazy people like OBL, but I can tell you they wouldn't have followers if we took care of the real issues.
 
busherie said:
PS: babylonian, they were scared to get caught. Like Moussaoui did. This program was a blessing.
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For, again, THREE of them. Further, considering what they were planning, I'm quite sure they were scared to get caught every friggin' day. You think that being here on valid visas made them feel more comfortable? You think that they wouldn't have attempted the crime if it required them to enter the country illegally and use falsified documents?

I guess it's lucky for them that the conspiracy was concerned with their comfort level.

PS: It's "Babbylonian." The misspelling is deliberate.
 
Babbylonian said:
For, again, THREE of them. Further, considering what they were planning, I'm quite sure they were scared to get caught every friggin' day. You think that being here on valid visas made them feel more comfortable? You think that they wouldn't have attempted the crime if it required them to enter the country illegally and use falsified documents?

I guess it's lucky for them that the conspiracy was concerned with their comfort level.

PS: It's "Babbylonian." The misspelling is deliberate.
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Again, nobody knew at the time how many or who exactly was on the operation (unless you are even more Ct than I am... :)

Babbylonian, I'm saying it could have been 15 or 3, it doesn't really matter. What matters is this system is a real smoking gun. Implementing it at this time anf for this country is the real point.

By facilitating their visa procedure, you would minimize their chances of ending up like Moussaoui, and maximizing their chances not to get caught, despite all the intel that was circulating at the time.

Busherie
 
busherie said:
Enigma, you are using straw man arguments. VEP or Visa waiver program are designed to facilitate procedures for tourits and migrants. Why specifically for Saudi Arabia? Well that IS the question.
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Strawman argument? Do you know what a strawman argument is or are you just parroting your god Alex Jones? Answer the question idjit.
 
busherie said:
I'd love to present hard evidence. The problem is, i don't have subpoena powers!
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No as[rule8]le. You don't have enough of a brain to do research and answer the question asked. You are a woowoo just like killtown the idiot.
 
busherie said:
Babbylonian, I'm saying it could have been 15 or 3, it doesn't really matter. What matters is this system is a real smoking gun. Implementing it at this time anf for this country is the real point.
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And I'm saying that the only way it appears to be a "smoking gun" is if you already believe that the US Government was trying to facilitate such attacks. Otherwise, it's only evidence that the US Government generally likes people to visit from foreign countries - and, again, Saudi Arabia has long been considered a US ally - and tries to make that as painless as possible.
 
Babbylonian said:
And I'm saying that the only way it appears to be a "smoking gun" is if you already believe that the US Government was trying to facilitate such attacks. Otherwise, it's only evidence that the US Government generally likes people to visit from foreign countries - and, again, Saudi Arabia has long been considered a US ally - and tries to make that as painless as possible.
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Then you understand the title of this thread: Just another coincidence?

Because 9/11 is just full of coincidences. Lack of intel sharing, incompetence, bad luck.

So the US knew that there was something going on, and yet the the State departement went on with this program who clearly was gonna help make the defense system a little more blind.

This is the difference between you Jref people and CTs: you choose to believe the incompetence/coincidence theory to explain the why these attacks weren't stopped.

Whereas we believe that everything that happened after 9/11 shows the official version is fabricated: war in IQ, Patriot act written even before 9/11, all the research pointing to serious warnings.

I thought for a long time the official story was roughly true. But I mean when you have elements, like the visa express programs, you have got to ask yourself some questions.

Do you?

PS: if you would please stop insulting me, it's not very civilized.

Thx for attention

Busherie
 
Yo bushboy...what else is being minimized? Read the 4th paragraph of that US News And World Report story you linked to and also read later on.
 
Busherie, I'm a JREFer, and I do not, as you say, support any "incompetence/coincidence" theory of the 9/11 attacks.

You can ask all the questions you want, but what's the point if you ignore rational and fact-based answers?
 
scooby said:
Debunked.
And onions.
They've been debunked as well.
They can debunk anything on here.
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Rather than whining, scooby, why not point out what people have gotten wrong? Isn't that what rational people when they want others to understand why they disagree with an argument?
 
In hindsight the visa express program was not the best choice but I am still waiting for either of these woos to answer as to why it was instituted in Saudi Arabia. They can't give a valid reason or they will plainly see that they have no justification whatsoever for using this as an example of 9/11 being an inside job. But then again, they could just be sick, twisted woos like the flat earth society.
 
Gravy said:
Rather than whining, scooby, why not point out what people have gotten wrong? Isn't that what rational people when they want others to understand why they disagree with an argument?
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Gravy...your wasting your energy. Unfortunately so am I so disregard my previous sentence :)
 
busherie said:
This is the difference between you Jref people and CTs: you choose to believe the incompetence/coincidence theory to explain the why these attacks weren't stopped.
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I choose to see that highly motivated, well-financed terrorists were able to commit mass murder. That the government was unable to prevent it is, unfortunately, obvious. That the government was unwilling to prevent it or knew it was going to happen (beyond "Islamic terrorists will eventually commit terrorist acts in the US" - which has always been obvious) requires a lot more evidence, which I haven't seen yet.
 
Gravy said:
Busherie, I'm a JREFer, and I do not, as you say, support any "incompetence/coincidence" theory of the 9/11 attacks.

You can ask all the questions you want, but what's the point if you ignore rational and fact-based answers?
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I am waiting for a rational fact-based explanation for the State Dept implementing this program, in this country, and in this context.

Furthermore, what is your overall belief concerning 9/11?

Note that I don't despise Jrefers when they don't insult me (and you don't, I appreciate it). Overall, I find this forum very efficient to refine CT. (cause they surely are a big mess)

~enigma~ said:
Yo bushboy...what else is being minimized? Read the 4th paragraph of that US News And World Report story you linked to and also read later on.
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Can you copy it, because I'm not sure which one you're talking about. But I don't understand your point.

The official reason they implemented it is they wanted to facilitate the visa procedures for tourists and workers
Was there another reason? Well that's the question.

Now stop playing Q, ang get started on A.
 
Babbylonian said:
I choose to see that highly motivated, well-financed terrorists were able to commit mass murder. That the government was unable to prevent it is, unfortunately, obvious. That the government was unwilling to prevent it or knew it was going to happen (beyond "Islamic terrorists will eventually commit terrorist acts in the US" - which has always been obvious) requires a lot more evidence, which I haven't seen yet.
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I agree with the first part of your demonstration.

On the second part, I think that the warnings were obvious, PDB, specific warnings from foreign agencies, Clarke crying to meet with Rice, Cheney and others, and of course ex post facts that 9/11 was THE thing this administratio needed in order to impose war in IQ, Patriot act, massive intervention in the World etc...

However, getting the hard evidence is not something that can happen unless there is some kind of big whistle blower or evidence coming out. That is why a new investigation is needed.

The first one did some of its job, but there was not enough political will and too much political pressure to sort all this out.
 
busherie, are you claiming that the visa program was designed specifically to get 3 hijackers into the US?
 
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