Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

[bonzombiekitty]

A rise in population combined with a rise in diagnosis and public awareness leading parents to actually have their child tested, something which only really took off in the last 20 years or so.

My friend's girlfriend is about to get her PHD in psychology. She focus on kids with developmental issues, including autism. She says a new idea that's being looked at is the rise of global communications (i.e. the internet) as being a large contributing factor beyond better diagnosing.

The basic idea is that autism has a genetic component. In the past, people who would fall somewhere on the autism spectrum would have to go out and meet people in order to find a mate, which is difficult for these people to do. The rise of communications like the internet has made it much easier for these people to find a mate as they can meet in a comfortable environment for them. So this means more people lying somewhere on the autism spectrum having more kids. If it has a genetic component, that means those kids are more likely to develop autism themselves, which bumps up the rate of autism.

 

[Clayton Moore]

That is demonstrably false and a visit to PubMed and Web of Science proves that. Just because every single aetiology for ASDs have not been elucidated, doesn't mean that people, lay-people and unqualified scientists no less, get to make it up out of whole cloth. Were you paying attention at all upthread where I mentioned the massive, laborious and expensive effort just to elucidate the genes involved with height? It's going to take time and new studies, new directives are coming out all the time. Shame on the lot of you who keep bleating on about vaccines, distracting from the real science that it takes to find answers.

Este

For shame on you for saying real science can't figure out why 18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide. It's not a disease, it's a failure of a toddlers brain due to an injury to the brain. How difficult can it possibly be to determine when and how a toddler was injured?

 

[Belz...]

As has been explained to you repeatedly, there is a significant difference between an increase in autism diagnosis and an increase in autism. There simply is no excuse for you failing to grasp this point.

Bears repeating.

 

[Tomblvd]

For shame on you for saying real science can't figure out why 18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide. It's not a disease, it's a failure of a toddlers brain due to an injury to the brain. How difficult can it possibly be to determine when and how a toddler was injured?

Still here Clayton?

I asked you a question that you have been avoiding, and I'd appreciate an answer. You said single jabs are safer than combinations. Why are single jabs safer?

Your silence on this is very revealing.

 

[excaza]

For shame on you for saying real science can't figure out why 18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide.

As has been explained to you repeatedly, there is a significant difference between an increase in autism diagnosis and an increase in autism. There simply is no excuse for you failing to grasp this point.

It's not a disease, it's a failure of a toddlers brain due to an injury to the brain. How difficult can it possibly be to determine when and how a toddler was injured?

Clayton, you do realize it's difficult to hold a rational conversation when you insist on flat out ignoring and/or misrepresenting reality?

Sigh...

 

[Lamuella]

For shame on you for saying real science can't figure out why 18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide.

There's no evidence that they are increasingly stricken with it. They're increasingly diagnosed with it, but that just means we're better at diagnosis than we used to be. We're able to diagnose autism much earlier than we were before.

 

[Tatyana]

You, a medical scientist and the world medical community, proffer nary a clue, nor a direction, or nary a suspicion.

30+ years of awareness? 30+ years analyzing data? 30+ years of studies?
Nothing? Nada?

The world medical community stands as one, all indignant and snide, with absolutely freaking NOTHING?

I think you need to do a literature review.

There was this little blip of about ten years when a lot of research money had to go into proving, over and over, that vaccines do not cause autism, however, the goal posts kept moving.

I think you will find that there have been at least three or four studies on research into the genetics of autism (which appears to be quite complicated) as well as some of the environmental factors, such as proximity to freeways.

We also know that intrauterine assault with a rubella infection causes autism (and other birth defects), as well as various types of meningitis infections of the neonate may also cause autism.

Personally, I think you are being a zealot and would prefer to be right and have someone to blame than actually deal with reality and evidence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1125046/

The causes of autism spectrum disorders
Multiple factors have been identified, but a unifying cascade of events is still elusive

http://www.autismgenome.org/

AGP
The Autism Genome Project
"Investigating the genetic basis of autism"

 

[Tatyana]

For shame on you for saying real science can't figure out why 18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide. It's not a disease, it's a failure of a toddlers brain due to an injury to the brain. How difficult can it possibly be to determine when and how a toddler was injured?

There is a strong genetic basis to autism.

The 'injury' happened when sperm collided with egg.

What if we find out that the major contributing environment factor is petrochemical fumes from motor vehicles?

Are you going to stop driving your car to stop inflicting damage to toddler's brains?

 

[excaza]

Sperm causes autism, off with the nads!

 

[Estellea]

For shame on you for saying real science can't figure out why 18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide. It's not a disease, it's a failure of a toddlers brain due to an injury to the brain. How difficult can it possibly be to determine when and how a toddler was injured?

You do like histrionics and being as offensive as possible when it comes to describing autistic people. There are many people on the spectrum here and perhaps with who you have contact with on a daily basis; I'm sure they would be pleased to know that they are thought of as injured. And that is the problem with people like you and the AoA critters, to hell with the actual evidence that is continually being generated that autism is a genetic and possibly epigenetic trait/disorder, you just want something to blame.

If autism was vaccine injury then there would be sufficient numbers of children and adults that would share biochemical, neurological and physiological patterns that could be discerned; they don't. That is why no studies of vaccines can find an association and why it is taking time to elucidate the multi-factorial aetiology of ASDs. Furthermore, you haven't answered to your own claim that MMR is responsible. Why is that? Your continued attempts at "look shiny object" are boring and obvious.

Este

 

[LarianLeQuella]

18 month old toddlers are increasingly stricken with autism worldwide. It's not a disease, it's a failure of a toddlers brain due to an injury to the brain.

Um, you realize that is not at all what autism is (I italicized your biggest errors in just that post alone)? If you don't even understand the disease, how can you rail against it?

Wow, the ignrance being spouted by you is shameful. Almost to the point of being deliberately deceitful!

 

[tsig]

Well, here's an equally OMINOUS statistic: Prior to 1903 (actually 1908 even!), NO ONE EVER died from crashes while riding in heavier than air, powered aircraft.
I wonder why that is?

Because parachutes were suppressed by BigAir.

_{(I know it makes no sense but in this thread it makes sense)}

 

[tsig]

You, a medical scientist and the world medical community, proffer nary a clue, nor a direction, or nary a suspicion.

30+ years of awareness? 30+ years analyzing data? 30+ years of studies?
Nothing? Nada?

The world medical community stands as one, all indignant and snide, with absolutely freaking NOTHING?

You, Clayton Moore and the world alt medical community, proffer nary a clue, nor a direction, or nary a suspicion.

30+ years of awareness? 30+ years analyzing data? 30+ years of studies?
Nothing? Nada?

The world alt medical community stands as one, all indignant and snide, with absolutely freaking NOTHING?

 

[Locknar]

Ok folks, it is beginning to sound like a elementary school play ground. In other words....please keep your posts civil/polite, on topic, and address the argument vs attack the arguer.

Otherwise, you'll be sent to the Principal's Office...and nobody wants that.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[pakeha]

I read this not 30 minutes ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15999492

Ninety per cent of European cases were amongst adolescents and adults who had not been vaccinated or people where it was not known if they had been vaccinated or not.

And measles from Europe has been linked to outbreaks in several other countries including Brazil, Canada and Australia.

Thoughts?

 

[Tomblvd]

I read this not 30 minutes ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15999492



Thoughts?

Andrew Wakefield and his willing accomplices in the press should be in jail.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I read this not 30 minutes ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15999492



Thoughts?

Ninety per cent of European cases were amongst adolescents and adults who had not been vaccinated or people where it was not known if they had been vaccinated or not.

Which means 10% or more of persons who had been vaccinated got the measles. THE MEASLES is how it was phrased back in the day.

So what's the point?

Back in the day the measles was not a dangerous illness in the US.
Improved treatment methodologies over a 1/2 century later, should make it even less dangerous.

Oh and the crap that Big Pharma makes the vaccines without the images of dollar signs dancing in their heads, is just that, CRAP.

 

[pakeha]

Sharpen up your reading skills.
10% of those who contracted measles had been vaccinated.
Now read the entire article.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Sharpen up your reading skills.
10% of those who contracted measles had been vaccinated.
Now read the entire article.

Quote:
Ninety per cent of European cases were amongst adolescents and adults who had not been vaccinated or people where it was not known if they had been vaccinated or not.

I'm sure there was at least ONE person who didn't know that they had been vaccinated.


That one person would make it more than 10%.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Mr. Moore, where is that evidence that the rise of autism in the USA started in 1971 when their MMR vaccine was approved? Please do not use anything written by Buttram or Yazbak, who have both shown to have low morality by keeping a child murderer out of jail.