Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

[Stomatopoda]

Tell me this. What is the commonality, world wide, that has caused the tremendous increase in victims of autism? And don't say there hasn't been a tremendous increase.

A century ago, there were zero autism diagnoses. Do you understand why there were zero diagnoses?

 

[Clayton Moore]

jamesbuhls the OP seems to have gone dormant. I wonder how his wife would receive the view that there hasn't been a tremendous increase in autism. It was a mirage due to new diagnosis criteria.

That's how the vaccine devotees see it.

So vaccine devotees tell me this, what is the common denominator, world wide, that has caused the significant increase of autism victims over the past 50 years? And don't say there hasn't been a significant increase.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

A rise in population combined with a rise in diagnosis and public awareness leading parents to actually have their child tested, something which only really took off in the last 20 years or so.

 

[pakeha]

Yadda yadda yadda.

The net is filled with this and that. Imperfection is everywhere. ...

Indeed.
I'd be interested in learning why anyone should take seriously the claims of someone who thinks the shaken child symptoms are actually caused by vaccines.

 

[Tomblvd]

And, yet again, Clayton ignores what should be a simple question for him:

Why are single shots safer?

 

[Clayton Moore]

A rise in population combined with a rise in diagnosis and public awareness leading parents to actually have their child tested, something which only really took off in the last 20 years or so.

So all the of the about 82,800,000 results (0.15 seconds) are essentially due to a reevaluation of a condition?

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20090108/autism-cases-rise

Jan. 8, 2009 -- Environmental factors may be partly behind California's eightfold rise in new cases, a new study implies.

Many researchers have believed that the continuous increase in autism cases over the last decade -- particularly the huge increase seen in California -- isn't real, but can be explained by "artifacts."

Among these artifacts are the recent broadening of the diagnostic criteria for autism and greatly increased diagnosis of autism at younger ages. Both these factors could make it seem like there are more autism cases than there were before.

These artifacts do explain part of the rise in autism cases, shows a rigorous study by Irva Hertz-Picciotto, PhD, MPH, chief of the division of environmental and occupational health at the University of California, Davis.

But even taken together, they don't explain even half of the huge increase in cases.

"When you put it all together, this doesn't come close to explaining the increases in the last 10 years," Hertz-Picciotto tells WebMD. "The more you whittle away at this increase, the more you have to say that what is left over is real. ... Given that autism cases keep going up, and can't be fully explained by artifacts, environmental factors deserve serious consideration."

 

[tsig]

Yadda yadda yadda.

The net is filled with this and that. Imperfection is everywhere.


Tell me this. What is the commonality, world wide, that has caused the tremendous increase in victims of autism? And don't say there hasn't been a tremendous increase.

There hasn't been a tremendous increase in autism.

 

[Tomblvd]

That's how the vaccine devotees see it.

We prefer life devotees, thank you.

So vaccine devotees tell me this, what is the common denominator, world wide, that has caused the significant increase of autism victims over the past 50 years? And don't say there hasn't been a significant increase.

Where are you getting 50 years? The rise in autism has only been going on since the late 80s or early 90s.

And why are single shots safer?

 

[Estellea]

So all the of the about 82,800,000 results (0.15 seconds) are essentially due to a reevaluation of a condition?

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20090108/autism-cases-rise

While you are using better sources; it is crucial to evaluate the Hertz-Picciotta paper that this was based upon and was very flawed as explained here and here. So yes, all or nearly all cases of autism can be explained by administrative changes, awareness and younger age of diagnosis. Studies like this one are being performed to elucidate the neurological development in utero of an autistic brain and if the result of environmental insult, would be occurring pre-natally, not post.

So answer the question of why single jabs are safer than MMR and stop trying to distract us. Also, it's really bad form and very insulting for you to refer to autistics as "victims".

Este

 

[Belz...]

A century ago, there were zero autism diagnoses. Do you understand why there were zero diagnoses?

Clayton ?

 

[BadBoy]

Excaza and ehcks nailed it...
Bad analogy.

If you want to stick by that analogy, by suggesting people get 3 shots rather than a single (and safe) shot, you are not simply "crossing at the light rather than the middle of a block", you are actually ignoring a perfectly good crosswalk in the middle of the block (one that works too!. i.e. the single injection MMR) in order to go out of your way to go to the intersection.

Not only that, but your in danger of being hit by a car that mounted the pavement while walking down to the intersection

 

[pakeha]

While you are using better sources; it is crucial to evaluate the Hertz-Picciotta paper that this was based upon and was very flawed as explained here and here. So yes, all or nearly all cases of autism can be explained by administrative changes, awareness and younger age of diagnosis. Studies like this one are being performed to elucidate the neurological development in utero of an autistic brain and if the result of environmental insult, would be occurring pre-natally, not post.

So answer the question of why single jabs are safer than MMR and stop trying to distract us. Also, it's really bad form and very insulting for you to refer to autistics as "victims".

Este

Thanks for the links, Este!

 

[LarianLeQuella]

Tell me this. What is the commonality, world wide, that has caused the tremendous increase in victims of autism? And don't say there hasn't been a tremendous increase.

Well, here's an equally OMINOUS statistic: Prior to 1903 (actually 1908 even!), NO ONE EVER died from crashes while riding in heavier than air, powered aircraft.
I wonder why that is?

 

[Giordano]

Clayton has resorted to the same argument in other threads, "Autism is increasing, so what is the one commonality worldwide that can explain it?!? If not vaccines, what is causing it, huh?" People have tried to explain to him that even if there really is an increase in autism, the specifics clearly rule out vaccination as that cause. The increased use of the Internet fits the autism statistics better than vaccination. Global warming is a pretty good fit, too I believe CM really does care about individuals with autism. But given that, I'm not sure why he persists in his fixation on vaccination. It is a false explanation, engendered by a fraud and sold to desperate people. If you want to prevent or cure autism, worrying about vaccinations takes away from finding the real cause. No, I'm not suggesting the real cause is the Internet or global warming; we don't know the real cause. We don't know what dark matter is either, but that doesn't mean it is due to pixies holding hands.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

People who believe that correlation automatically equals causality will not be easily shaken from the conclusions that follow, despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[Tatyana]

The point is, not being a medical scientist, I can only attempt to form opinions from what I read.

I am a medical scientist.

Science is not about opinions, it is about evidence.

I'm not moving any goal posts. I'm learning and sharing. The goalpost continues to be the cause of autism.


http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/06/01/vaccines-and-brain-inflammation/

You appear to be stuck on this vaccines cause autism.

If you limit yourself to knowing that autism and/or the rise in autism is caused by vaccines, you may never actually find the actual cause.

 

[excaza]

So vaccine devotees tell me this, what is the common denominator, world wide, that has caused the significant increase of autism victims over the past 50 years? And don't say there hasn't been a significant increase.

As has been explained to you repeatedly, there is a significant difference between an increase in autism diagnosis and an increase in autism. There simply is no excuse for you failing to grasp this point.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I am a medical scientist.

Science is not about opinions, it is about evidence.





You appear to be stuck on this vaccines cause autism.

If you limit yourself to knowing that autism and/or the rise in autism is caused by vaccines, you may never actually find the actual cause.

You, a medical scientist and the world medical community, proffer nary a clue, nor a direction, or nary a suspicion.

30+ years of awareness? 30+ years analyzing data? 30+ years of studies?
Nothing? Nada?

The world medical community stands as one, all indignant and snide, with absolutely freaking NOTHING?

 

[excaza]

You, a medical scientist and the world medical community, proffer nary a clue, nor a direction, or nary a suspicion.

Wrong.

30+ years of awareness? 30+ years analyzing data? 30+ years of studies?
Nothing? Nada?

Wrong.

The world medical community stands as one, all indignant and snide, with absolutely freaking NOTHING?

Wrong.

Clayton, you do realize it's difficult to hold a rational conversation when you insist on flat out ignoring and/or misrepresenting reality?

 

[Estellea]

You, a medical scientist and the world medical community, proffer nary a clue, nor a direction, or nary a suspicion.

30+ years of awareness? 30+ years analyzing data? 30+ years of studies?
Nothing? Nada?

The world medical community stands as one, all indignant and snide, with absolutely freaking NOTHING?

That is demonstrably false and a visit to PubMed and Web of Science proves that. Just because every single aetiology for ASDs have not been elucidated, doesn't mean that people, lay-people and unqualified scientists no less, get to make it up out of whole cloth. Were you paying attention at all upthread where I mentioned the massive, laborious and expensive effort just to elucidate the genes involved with height? It's going to take time and new studies, new directives are coming out all the time. Shame on the lot of you who keep bleating on about vaccines, distracting from the real science that it takes to find answers.

Este