Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[swright777]

...
The H1N1 Vaccine of 2010 gave drug company’s over 6 billion dollars profit.
...

Do you know how many doses were produced? According to Wiki there were about 3 billion. That's about $2 per dose. Those evil bastards!!1!1

I wonder how much a movie theater makes for a box of popcorn, or how much a fast food joint makes off of a value meal.

And concerning safety, somewhere between 14 and 18 thousand died from the H1N1 virus that year. How many died from the vaccine? I'm guessing not nearly as many.

 

[jdc324]

From Clayton's quote earlier in the thread Wakefield says:

He was allowed to appeal, I couldn't afford to but he was funded to appeal and he was completely and utterly exonerated in the high court.

Could he really not afford to appeal?

Barr's lawsuit alone paid Wakefield £435,643 plus expenses: http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5258 Then there's the companies he was a director of, including Unigenetics.

According to the wiki: "At the time of his MMR research study, Wakefield was senior lecturer and honorary consultant in experimental gastroenterology at the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine" (Pay scales available here: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/hr/salary_scales/.) Then he "helped establish and served as the executive director of Thoughtful House Center for Children".

An anti-vaxxer claims: http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/02/...dom-general-medical-council-wakefield-ca.html "The estimated costs of the 3 year GMC hearing are around £7million. Professor Walker-Smith's High Court 2 week appeal hearing will not cost as much as that, but the bill will still amount to £tens of thousands."

If it's just tens of thousands then surely Wakefield could have afforded it? Maybe the commenters guess is wildly wrong and it would actually be much more expensive than she thinks?

There's another comment at AoA from the investigative journalist Brian Morgan: "On the matter of cost, the application could be in person, at very small cost. What does puzzle me is why the GMC finding was not appealed at the time, with the cost being born by the defence society. I've never been given an answer to this. Perhaps those close to the doctor involved have information?"

 

[robcasey]

vaccienes






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03K2ONrFiYc&feature=watch-vrec



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhRJ_Wzb_8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GqsKhjYG1Q

 

[Straw Man]

vaccienes






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03K2ONrFiYc&feature=watch-vrec



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhRJ_Wzb_8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GqsKhjYG1Q

Random Yoootoooob stuff with no description, so will not watch.

What are you trying to say here, bonny lad?

 

[Estellea]

vaccienes






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03K2ONrFiYc&feature=watch-vrec



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhRJ_Wzb_8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GqsKhjYG1Q

This is either a joke or a Clayton sock puppet.

Este

 

[abaddon]

Three for the team, then.

vaccienes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03K2ONrFiYc&feature=watch-vrec

1 Hour of Gary Null ranting rally. Here is what quackwatch says about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhRJ_Wzb_8

3 minute pro-vax clip, interview with a doc and a woman who caused her child serious illness by refusing vaccines. A mistake by Rob to include this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GqsKhjYG1Q

3 minute covert cell phone video for anti vax purposes. The pharmacist does NOT say what the anti vaxxers claim, nor anything particularly controversial.

 

[pakeha]

I have noticed a pattern on this whole forum. Anyone who expresses a view contrary to the common mantra aren't debated with but subject to ridicule (very much like a schoolyard). Any source they use cannot be a trusted objective source (and when it is it is brushed over). You don't need a peer reviewed paper to convict a murderer, you don't need to write a dissertation to clean a sink.

After all how much of all the knowledge in the universe have we collected. Allot less than one percent I would wager!

<SNIP>

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for civility. Please read the Membership Agreement to which you agreed when you signed up, and strive to abide by it.

The Facts about Vaccine Damages -You Pay for them

Health insurance coverage does not cover vaccine damage.

Be prepared to cover a lifetime of care for your child.

Schools will not teach autistic children, often they are expelled.

You will have to pay for special training.

You cannot sue a drug company for a faulty vaccine, the law protects them.

You give vaccines to your children at your own risk.

There is no proof that vaccines work to prevent any disease-never has been.

There is no proof that carcinogens in vaccines do not damage your kids.

There is no proof that vaccines do not cause or help cancer to grow.

There is no proof that multiple vaccines are necessary, they save money only.

There is no proof that vaccines are safe, never has been.

The H1N1 Vaccine of 2010 gave drug company’s over 6 billion dollars profit.

Vaccines are found to contain bacteria and contamination.


Vaccines are now being put in food products, especially GMO Foods.


If I am wrong then educate me properly as a teacher to a student. Not in any other way will people choose to learn or change there beliefs. You seriously expect people to change by being mocked and ridiculed? This forum would be better if there were debates in a friendly and lively way.

BTW I HAVE NOTICED SOME REALLY INTELLEGENT POSTERS WHO DON'T RIDICULE AND YOU ARE MOST APPRECIATED THEY JUST SHOOT ME DOWN IN A NICE WAY INSTEAD LOL!

Hi, robcasey.
I've read over your list and would really apreciate some links to the sources which made you think these things are true.

I'm still waiting for your reply, robcasey.

 

[Tomblvd]

I'm still waiting for your reply, robcasey.

You won't see him for a while.

He's going to be quite busy going from store to store, restaurant to restaurant dumping that toxic salt out of its containers.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You won't see him for a while.

He's going to be quite busy going from store to store, restaurant to restaurant dumping that toxic salt out of its containers.

Perhaps he could save a pinch for when he is watching those you tube vids.

 

[catsmate]

My mother who recently passed away was in very poor health most of her life. She was with other mothers and people of the time given many various drugs for various aliments during the 50's to the 80's. This was the cause of her ill health.

Evidence for this unsupported assertion?

I have looked in all major and allot of minor search engines and can not find one proponent of vaccine skepticism that has not come under scrutiny or attack.

Perhaps because they spout nonsense and endanger lives?

How is it that they were doing really well for themselves then they started sighting there may be dangers associated with vaccines then all their careers take a nose dive (public media medical scrutiny law suits being struck off over and over again)
So please if anyone has a link where some doctor or researcher hasn't been branded a heretic please provide it for me.

How's about you provide evidence for the assertions you so readily parrot?

Is mercury safe for human consumption?

Not particularly. Is this somehow relevant to your (still unsupported) claims?

<snippage of much irrelevent material pasted form Wikipedia

Is this supported to support your allegations somehow?

<snip>

Posting random videos? Is that the best you've got?

 

[dafydd]

Perhaps he could save a pinch for when he is watching those you tube vids.

I would recommend a few kilos.

 

[robcasey]

Try it at home

Why don't some of you try drinking the toxins in the shots and see what happens!

Over the past several years, because of an increasing awareness of the theoretical potential for neurotoxicity of putting mercury in vaccines they have started to phase it out somewhat, as explained at the FDA website.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

If there was no "increasing awareness" as they put it (I.e people waking up) it would still be the same today. As it stands they have mostly only lowered the dose or replaced it with something far worse as a preservative.

No one can tell me aluminum is safe for human consumption....


But..... I suspect someone here will say it is!!! Or its safer to have the shot that contains toxins than to risk say getting polio (which is nil).

What are the chances of getting polio? Practically zero chance of getting it in the U.S. & almost every other country around the world. I think there are only 4 countries that still have it. "The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993." - According to the CDChttp://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

This is the problem really most of these vaccines are dangerous and of no use, presevatives like aluminum and mercury for stuff like polio that does not cause a problem in the western world anymore! But The Big companies make allot of money so lets keep taking them. FINE!

 

[TSR]

Why don't some of you try drinking the toxins in the shots and see what happens!

In the microgram amounts and compounds actually used in vaccines, sure.

Is there a reason other than the obvious you took the time to post without actually addressing any of the issues raised by your previous efforts?

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

If there was no "increasing awareness" as they put it (I.e people waking up) it would still be the same today. As it stands they have mostly only lowered the dose or replaced it with something far worse as a preservative.

From your own source, bolding mine:

The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only. Further, the committee stated that the benefits of vaccination are proven and the hypothesis of susceptible populations is presently speculative, and that widespread rejection of vaccines would lead to increases in incidences of serious infectious diseases like measles, whooping cough and Hib bacterial meningitis.


And you think would be a *good* thing?

No one can tell me aluminum is safe for human consumption....

Ah, so that's why it is often an ingredient in infant formula and processed cheeses, not to mention anything grown in soil which happens to be aluminum rich.

No one can tell you anything which you haven't already decided to believe, apparently.

But..... I suspect someone here will say it is!!! Or its safer to have the shot that contains toxins than to risk say getting polio (which is nil).

And why is it nil, again, rob?

This is the problem really most of these vaccines are dangerous and of no use, presevatives like aluminum and mercury for stuff like polio that does not cause a problem in the western world anymore! But The Big companies make allot of money so lets keep taking them. FINE!

Really? How dangerous, exactly are they? Let's take the polio example since you brought it up. How many people died from the vaccine vs. how many died from polio or were paralyzed by it?

 

[Straw Man]

Why don't some of you try drinking the toxins in the shots and see what happens!

We all do, every day.

Over the past several years, because of an increasing awareness of the theoretical potential for neurotoxicity of putting mercury in vaccines they have started to phase it out somewhat, as explained at the FDA website.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

If there was no "increasing awareness" as they put it (I.e people waking up) it would still be the same today. As it stands they have mostly only lowered the dose or replaced it with something far worse as a preservative.

No, not people 'waking up'.

No one can tell me aluminum is safe for human consumption....

Quickly, someone ban water! Don't you know that it can kill you!!

But..... I suspect someone here will say it is!!! Or its safer to have the shot that contains toxins than to risk say getting polio (which is nil).

What are the chances of getting polio? Practically zero chance of getting it in the U.S. & almost every other country around the world. I think there are only 4 countries that still have it. "The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993." - According to the CDChttp://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

This is the problem really most of these vaccines are dangerous and of no use, presevatives like aluminum and mercury for stuff like polio that does not cause a problem in the western world anymore! But The Big companies make allot of money so lets keep taking them. FINE!

Why do you think Polio was just about been eradicated, Rob? Think it got tired and needed to go have a lie down? It was vaccinations that made it a thing of the past in the Western world. You have to realise that there is a ton of stuff that we take in every day that is a toxin, and the human body is an amazing piece of engineering, because it can deal with these, and can excrete them. Vaccines aren't placed in a huge vial of liquid mercury and injected into the body.

 

[Giordano]

Rob,
Do you see any pattern as to where polio has disappeared versus where vaccination against polio was introduced? Is there a similar pattern as to when polio has disappeared versus when vaccination against polio was introduced in any given area? Do you see a similar pattern for smallpox? For other diseases? Yet you maintain that vaccinations are the problem. That makes no sense!

Do you have any actual data that any vaccine in current use is more dangerous than the disease to which it is directed?

Are all the doctors, scientists, state, federal, and foreign health agencies lying to you? And all the non- government agencies? Are all the people at pharmaceutical companies evil and are hiding the hideous things you attribute to vaccines?

 

[robcasey]

In the microgram amounts and compounds actually used in vaccines, sure.

Is there a reason other than the obvious you took the time to post without actually addressing any of the issues raised by your previous efforts?

From your own source, bolding mine:

The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only. Further, the committee stated that the benefits of vaccination are proven and the hypothesis of susceptible populations is presently speculative, and that widespread rejection of vaccines would lead to increases in incidences of serious infectious diseases like measles, whooping cough and Hib bacterial meningitis.


And you think would be a *good* thing?

Ah, so that's why it is often an ingredient in infant formula and processed cheeses, not to mention anything grown in soil which happens to be aluminum rich.

No one can tell you anything which you haven't already decided to believe, apparently.

And why is it nil, again, rob?

Really? How dangerous, exactly are they? Let's take the polio example since you brought it up. How many people died from the vaccine vs. how many died from polio or were paralyzed by it?

I already answered your polio question in my post before you even raised it!! You ignored it go back and have a look!

 

[robcasey]

In the microgram amounts and compounds actually used in vaccines, sure.

Is there a reason other than the obvious you took the time to post without actually addressing any of the issues raised by your previous efforts?

From your own source, bolding mine:

The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only. Further, the committee stated that the benefits of vaccination are proven and the hypothesis of susceptible populations is presently speculative, and that widespread rejection of vaccines would lead to increases in incidences of serious infectious diseases like measles, whooping cough and Hib bacterial meningitis.


And you think would be a *good* thing?

Ah, so that's why it is often an ingredient in infant formula and processed cheeses, not to mention anything grown in soil which happens to be aluminum rich.

No one can tell you anything which you haven't already decided to believe, apparently.

And why is it nil, again, rob?

Really? How dangerous, exactly are they? Let's take the polio example since you brought it up. How many people died from the vaccine vs. how many died from polio or were paralyzed by it?

The bit you chose to ignore!

What are the chances of getting polio? Practically zero chance of getting it in the U.S. & almost every other country around the world. I think there are only 4 countries that still have it. "The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993." - According to the CDChttp://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

 

[robcasey]

Rob,
Do you see any pattern as to where polio has disappeared versus where vaccination against polio was introduced? Is there a similar pattern as to when polio has disappeared versus when vaccination against polio was introduced in any given area? Do you see a similar pattern for smallpox? For other diseases? Yet you maintain that vaccinations are the problem. That makes no sense!

Do you have any actual data that any vaccine in current use is more dangerous than the disease to which it is directed?

Are all the doctors, scientists, state, federal, and foreign health agencies lying to you? And all the non- government agencies? Are all the people at pharmaceutical companies evil and are hiding the hideous things you attribute to vaccines?

Yes i see a pattern, and yes i see your point. But why spend billions of dollors on a vaacine that now no longer is needed? Why use dangerous preservatives? And why did that other guy try and argue aluminum is safe?? lol

 

[Straw Man]

The bit you chose to ignore!

What are the chances of getting polio? Practically zero chance of getting it in the U.S. & almost every other country around the world. I think there are only 4 countries that still have it. "The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993." - According to the CDChttp://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

The stuff you choose to ignore. Why do you think that Polio isn't getting a chance to make a big comeback, and why do you think it vanished in the first place?

 

[Arisia]

Until polio is totally eradicated from the human population, we will need to vaccinate our children against it, even in the First World. Small price to pay considering what that one disease cost (in many ways) before the vaccines were developed.
Being born in a First World country in the second half of the 20th century (I would think that covers most of us) has meant that, thanks in great part to vaccines, we didn't need to face many of the childhood diseases that were a real threat to the health and lives of our grandparents' and parents' generations. And our children have even greater protection available to them than we had growing up! We shouldn't go back to those bad old days before vaccines, when all parents could do was fear and hope and pray, we really shouldn't.