Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Reality Check]

Adjuvants go way beyond the 200 year old vaccine concept.

Adjuvants are part of the 200 year old vaccine concept and so are within (not beyond) the concept.

Antivax is obviously anti-adjuvants.

Actually antivax is obviously delusional since vaccine benefits are obvious. But you are right, Clayton Moore - that delusion by definition extends to vaccines that contain adjuvants.

 

[Belz...]

Sometimes you have to dumb down to the level of your audience.

No, I think it's been dumbed down for the speaker.

 

[Bingowings]

Antivax is obviously anti-adjuvants.

So there's evidence that supports adjuvants causing autism?

Hmm. Adjuvants. Adieu-vants. Ad-you've-ants. A-JEW-VANTS. OH MY GOD! He's hit a goldberg! I mean a carmine. Oh, you know what I mean... He'll be Rich!

 

[abaddon]

So there's evidence that supports adjuvants causing autism?

Hmm. Adjuvants. Adieu-vants. Ad-you've-ants. A-JEW-VANTS. OH MY GOD! He's hit a goldberg! I mean a carmine. Oh, you know what I mean... He'll be Rich!

LOL. Nominated.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton you have any proof that the vaccine killed this person?

It is a sad tragedy she died it is not likely that the vaccine killed her in just two days, it is more likely there was an underlying condition in the first place.

Can you prove it was the vaccine?

Yes.

Hi. My name is Christina Richelle Tarsell, but people call me Chris. I celebrated my 21st birthday in November 2007. I did not live to see my 22nd. Suddenly, unexpectedly, and inexplicably, I died in bed in June 2008. An autopsy report said that the cause of my death was undetermined. After an extensive investigation, medical experts believe I died from an adverse reaction to the HPV vaccine, Gardasil. I had received Gardasil only days before my death. Through this website, my family wants to share information that might help others. They welcome your comments and emails at [email protected]. Be well, Chris.

 

[332nd]

Yes.

You misspelled no.

Btw, I got the flu vaccine today. What will your excuse be when I'm just fine?

 

[mikado]

Redtail, you know that you're lieing about getting the flu vaccine, dont you?

 

[Belz...]

Yes.

That doesn't sound like something actually written by the deceased, does it ?

And a block of text is hardly evidence without an actual reference. But then you know that already.

 

[Border Reiver]

Why do you?

http://www.gardasilandunexplaineddeaths.com/

Given that your story above is obviously not written by the woman in question, is found on an anti-vaccine site, and ignores the finding that her cause of death is unexplained - I think we need to question the reliability of the site and the information it contains.

A quick search shows that the only places where her death is attributed to Gardasil are anti-Gardasil and all other references to her death list if as "unknown causes" I think we can extrapolate that the Gardasil - death link is not proven to anyone's satisfaction other than those going in predisposed to think so.

 

[Dcdrac]

so Clayton no evidence at all that a vaccine killed that unfortunate person.

 

[swright777]

so Clayton no evidence at all that a vaccine killed that unfortunate person.

Somehow I don't think anyone is surprised by this.

 

[Bingowings]

so Clayton no evidence at all that a vaccine killed that unfortunate person.

If the deceased's distraught parents writing a blog as if their daughter were still alive isn't proof enough for you then I can't see what would be. Don't you know how science works? Someone says something and that makes it true.

No takesy-backsies.

 

[Dcdrac]

I do know how science works, but a blog on its own is not proof that a vaccine caused this tragedy.

 

[Reality Check]

What was the actual medical cause of Christina Richelle Tarsell's death

Yes.

No, Clayton Moore - that is a quote from a crank web site, not evidence.
I have no doubt that the parents of Christina Richelle Tarsell have the mistaken belief that her death was caused by her vaccination with HPV vaccine, Gardasil, because she got it before she died of unknown causes as stated by a known medical expert (a medical examiner doing her autopsy).

The stupidity of what you highlight is that an unknown "extensive investigation" using unknown "medical experts" magically attributes her death to Gardasil when these "experts" do not even state the cause of her death!

Clayton Moore this just contributes to
Clayton Moore's 25 statements and 196 days of ignorance and delusion.

Clayton Moore
What was the actual medical cause of Christina Richelle Tarsell's death as stated in that "extensive investigation"?
The answer will be the medical event that caused her death - stroke, cardiac infraction, etc.
You may go the ignorant route of saying it is one of the side-effects on that ignorant paranoid web site but you wil then have to show that Christina Richelle Tarsell's autopsy showed that side-effect existing.
First asked 23 September 2013 - 0 days and counting.

 

[Estellea]

Why do you?

http://www.gardasilandunexplaineddeaths.com/

I see Reality Check already weighed in on this. No Clayton, no medical experts deemed her death due to Gardasil; you''re just regurgitating the delusions of anti-vaxxers yet again.

Este

 

[Reality Check]

Clayton Moore's 30 statements and 201 days of ignorance and delusion

1. Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.
2. 
   First asked 4 March 2013 - 201 days and counting!
3. Clayton Moore, Do you really think that autism is a form of cancer?
   First asked 8 April 2013 - 169 days and counting
4. Clayton Moore, Please cite the scientific evidence for levels of carcinogens in vaccines enough to affect the vaccinated.
   First asked 8 April 2013 - 167 days and counting
5. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause allergies.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - 167 days and counting
6. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause cancer.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - 167 days and counting
7. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause MS.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - 167 days and counting
8. Clayton Moore: are you rational enough to understand that 2002 is not 2013, etc.
   First asked 18 April 2013 - 159 days and counting
9. Clayton Moore, Please cite your evidence for the rise of autism between 1978 and 1988
   First asked 26th April 2013 - 152 days and counting
10. Clayton Moore, Are you intelligent enough to cite the science that vaccines can cause asthma?
    First asked 30th April 2013 - 144 days and counting
11. Clayton Moore: Sources for 60 years ago there was little fear of the measles, mumps, or chicken pox
    First asked 14 May 2013 - 133 days and counting
12. Clayton Moore: Evidence for the increase in chronically sick people in the USA
    First asked 15 May 2013 - 132 days and counting
13. Clayton Moore, Exactly how is the Danish study "bogus"?
    First asked 24 May 2013 - 123 days and counting
14. Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that any immune system can be "over simulated"?
    First asked 10 June 2013 - 105 days and counting
15. Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
    Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
    First asked 13 June 2013 - 104 days and counting
16. Clayton Moore, Cite the evidence that Al in vaccines increases Alzheimer’s Disease
    First asked 14 June 2013 - 102 days and counting
17. Clayton Moore, Please give the source for the cause of death of this "little girl"
    This will actually take a while because you made up a fantasy about the cause while the ME's verdict is outstanding.
    First asked 17 June 2013 - 98 days and counting
18. Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
    First asked 24 June 2013 - 91 days and counting
19. Clayton Moore, Show that drug companies have a "poor drug testing track record"
    First asked 25 June 2013 - 90 days and counting
20. Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines?
    First asked 25 June 2013 - 90 days and counting
21. The delusion of citing an upcoming film from an ignorant, paranoid anit-vaxer (Jeff Hays interviews the quack Andrew Wakefield!)
22. The delusion that there are mysterious "additives" in vaccines that harm children.
    Clayton Moore, Please supply a list of the current additives to vaccines that have been shown to harm children.
    Or is this just another of the paranoid, ignorant delusions that you have been infected by xtongue) from the crazy web sites that you get your information from?
    First asked 2 July 2013 - 83 days and counting.
23. Clayton Moore: Does ASD have the same symptoms as mercury or lead poisoning?
    (they do not as anyone who can read cane find out)
    First asked 18 July 2013 - 69 days and counting.
24. Clayton Moore: do you have the fantasy that vaccines contain lead?
    First asked 18 July 2013 - 69 days and counting.
25. Clayton Moore: Do you think that autism is an autoimmune disease?
    First asked 19 July 2013 - 68 days and counting.
26. Clayton Moore,
    What is your evidence that the CDC is in "minionship to drug and vaccine companies"?
    First asked 26 July 2013 - 65 days and counting.
27. Clayton Moore: Do you not know that vaccines have side-effects?
    First asked 16 September 2013 - 7 days and counting.
    That is the only reason that I can see why you are rather insanely trying to list every person in the world that has ever had a vaccine side-effect !
28. Clayton Moore
    What is your evidence that only vaccines "are destabilizing millions of years of human evolution"?
    First asked 17 September 2013. 6 days and counting.
    It is almost as you are unaware that modern agriculture, civil works (sewers, etc.), medicine, etc. exist!
    Clayton Moore: For that matter what does "destabilizing" mean in evolutionary terms? Evolution almost by definition is not stable!
29. Clayton Moore: What is your evidence that this paper is "fabricated propaganda"?
    First asked 17 September 2013. 6 days and counting.
30. Clayton Moore: What was the actual medical cause of Christina Richelle Tarsell's death?
    First asked 23 September 2013 - 0 days and counting.
    So far you are just parroting a web site where the parents mourning the tragedy of an undetermined cause of death are desperately fantasizing a cause for that death.

 

[Robrob]

...

You should include the one where CM claimed doctors don't vaccinate their children and that the children of doctors and the rich have a lower incidence of autism than the rest of the population.

 

[crhkrebs]

Yes.

Clayton,

So, is this "proof" that Gardasil killed this girl as non-existent as your "proof" that the MMR vaccine causes autism?

I postulate the following:

Some of us will continuously ask Clayton to produce this "proof" over the next few weeks. Clayton will weasel out of supplying anything beyond personal anecdotes and "quack-site" quotes. Eventually Clayton will tell us he HAS provided us with this "proof" all along, and we simply haven't comprehended his comments. Personal attacks will follow. Repeat ad nauseum ...........

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton where is your proof that vaccines cause autism none given to date

 

[Robrob]

Clayton you have any proof that the vaccine killed this person?

It is a sad tragedy she died it is not likely that the vaccine killed her in just two days, it is more likely there was an underlying condition in the first place.

Can you prove it was the vaccine?

Yes.

Hi. My name is Christina Richelle Tarsell, but people call me Chris. I celebrated my 21st birthday in November 2007. I did not live to see my 22nd. Suddenly, unexpectedly, and inexplicably, I died in bed in June 2008. An autopsy report said that the cause of my death was undetermined. After an extensive investigation, medical experts believe I died from an adverse reaction to the HPV vaccine, Gardasil. I had received Gardasil only days before my death. Through this website, my family wants to share information that might help others. They welcome your comments and emails at [email protected]. Be well, Chris.

Wait, is he seriously posting as a claim of fact the posthumous declarations of a ghost!?