Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Reality Check]

It's amusing reading the rabble's defense of the human pretenders playing Dr. Frankenstein jury rigging the human immune system when it can't even be determined why bees are dying and toddlers are becoming autistic in droves. 1 in about 40 now becoming autistic in India.

It is so sad to see you stating the ignorant delusion that there is a link between vaccines and autism without any scientific evidence, Clayton Moore .
It is so sad to see you stating the fantasy that doctors and scientists are pretenders or Dr. Frankensteins, Clayton Moore .

Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.
First asked 4 March 2013 - 112 days and counting!

It is really sad to see the total ignorance of mentioning bees and lying about autism, Clayton Moore!
We know the possible causes of autism and they do not include vaccines.
We know that the rate of autism was so affected by changes in the diagnosis of autism that it is very hard to determine its true prevalence:

The number of reported cases of autism increased dramatically in the 1990s and early 2000s. This increase is largely attributable to changes in diagnostic practices, referral patterns, availability of services, age at diagnosis, and public awareness,[159][160] though unidentified environmental risk factors cannot be ruled out.[7] The available evidence does not rule out the possibility that autism's true prevalence has increased;[159

And looking at the autism article reminds me of another question for you, Clayton Moore.
Here are 2 facts for you, Clayton Moore:

1. The vaccination rate between boys and girls is roughly the same. For example, A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism studied 537,303 Danish children and found that the split between vaccinated boys and girls was 51% and 49% (similar to the split between unvaccinated children).
2. Boys are 4 times more likely to get autism the girls.

Clayton Moore, How does vaccination of boys in your fantasy produce four times more autistic children than the vaccination of girls?

 

[Reality Check]

Clayton Moore, What is your source for 1 in 40 Indian children becoming autistic

1 in about 40 now becoming autistic in India.

We know that you are fond of quoting the lies from delusional web sites so we should check this number.
Clayton Moore, What is your scientific source for 1 in about 40 Indian children becoming autistic?
First asked 25 June 2013 - 0 days and counting.

 

[Reality Check]

Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.
First asked 4 March 2013 - 112 days and counting!
...
Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
First asked 24 June 2013 - 1 day and counting.

I forgot to ask one important question about your statement about vaccines being a debacle, Clayton Moore.
Clayton Moore, does your ignorance about vaccines extend to the smallpox vaccine?
Smallpox

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century.[13][14][15] As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year.[5]

Smallpox was eradicated by a comprehensive diagnostic and vaccination effort. The smallpox vaccine saved 2 million people a year from dying or 68 million people since it was eradicated on 1979. It protected many millions more from the horrible scarring and other harm caused by smallpox.

Can we take it that you disapprove of this, Clayton Moore ?

 

[Clayton Moore]

You really know how to confirm that you have been fooled by ignorant paranoid web sites containing delusional fantasies, Clayton Moore !
And you confirm your ignorance:
Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
First asked 13 June 2013 - 13 days and counting

Your regurgitated paranoid fantasies and some original ones, Clayton Moore now includes
Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.
First asked 4 March 2013 - 112 days and counting!
Clayton Moore, Do you really think that autism is a form of cancer?
First asked 8 April 2013 - 76 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please cite the scientific evidence for levels of carcinogens in vaccines enough to affect the vaccinated.
First asked 8 April 2013 - 76 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause allergies.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 76 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause cancer.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 76 days and counting.
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause MS.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 76 days and counting
Clayton Moore: are you rational enough to understand that 2002 is not 2013, etc.
First asked 18 April 2013 - 68 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please cite your evidence for the rise of autism between 1978 and 1988
First asked 26th April 2013 - 61 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Are you intelligent enough to cite the science that vaccines can cause asthma?
First asked 30th April 2013 - 56 days and counting
Clayton Moore: Sources for 60 years ago there was little fear of the measles, mumps, or chicken pox
First asked 14 May 2013 - 42 days and counting
Clayton Moore: Evidence for the increase in chronically sick people in the USA
First asked 15 May 2013 - 41 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Exactly how is the Danish study "bogus"?
First asked 24 May 2013 - 32 days and counting
Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that any immune system can be "over simulated"?
First asked 10 June 2013 - 15 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
First asked 13 June 2013 - 13 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite the evidence that Al in vaccines increases Alzheimer’s Disease
First asked 14 June 2013 - 11 days and counting.
Clayton Moore, Please give the source for the cause of death of this "little girl"
This will actually take a while because you made up a fantasy about the cause while the ME's verdict is outstanding.
First asked 17 June 2013 - 8 days and counting.
Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
First asked 24 June 2013 - 1 day and counting.

My response.

"They are mostly all crank questions, athwart to common sense, asked and answered, that are being spammed over and over and over."

First response June 18, 2013 6 days and counting

The vaccine debacle and the near moribund state of American health is what is being ignored by a society of generations glazed over in awe of Dr. Kildare, Young Doctor Malone, Ben Casey, ad Infinitum. If I'm not mistaken the Doctor shows have run their course save for "House." Doctors and medicine cannot be questioned, ever. Laws are being passed which supersede parental authority. Sound familiar? Parents(people) can't question authority(history).

 

[LSSBB]

My response.

"They are mostly all crank questions, athwart to common sense, asked and answered, that are being spammed over and over and over."

First response June 18, 2013 6 days and counting

The vaccine debacle and the near moribund state of American health is what is being ignored by a society of generations glazed over in awe of Dr. Kildare, Young Doctor Malone, Ben Casey, ad Infinitum. If I'm not mistaken the Doctor shows have run their course save for "House." Doctors and medicine cannot be questioned, ever. Laws are being passed which supersede parental authority. Sound familiar? Parents(people) can't question authority(history).

Your 'response' is lacking the content needed to count as such.

 

[Clayton Moore]

It's hysterical that so few understand why there were so many doctor's shows to be worshiped.

 

[BazBear]

My response.

"They are mostly all crank questions, athwart to common sense, asked and answered, that are being spammed over and over and over."

First response June 18, 2013 6 days and counting

The vaccine debacle and the near moribund state of American health is what is being ignored by a society of generations glazed over in awe of Dr. Kildare, Young Doctor Malone, Ben Casey, ad Infinitum. If I'm not mistaken the Doctor shows have run their course save for "House." Doctors and medicine cannot be questioned, ever. Laws are being passed which supersede parental authority. Sound familiar? Parents(people) can't question authority(history).

That's a very nice strawman Clayton.

Of course we should, and do, question the medical professions. Continuing to question things that have been satisfactorily answered by the evidence from a great deal of research... both American and foreign... is rather silly and counterproductive.

Your energy would be better spent on something other than this silly obsession you have with the non-existent link between vaccines and autism.

 

[Reality Check]

It's hysterical that so few understand why there were so many doctor's shows to be worshiped.

It is beyond hysterical why you think that doctors shows have anything to do with this thread, Clayton Moore. It is actually

 

[Reality Check]

Show that drug companies have a "poor drug testing track record"

...
The vaccine debacle and the near moribund state of American health is what is being ignored by a society of generations glazed over in awe of Dr. Kildare, Young Doctor Malone, Ben Casey, ad Infinitum. If I'm not mistaken the Doctor shows have run their course save for "House." Doctors and medicine cannot be questioned, ever. Laws are being passed which supersede parental authority. Sound familiar? Parents(people) can't question authority(history).

More ranting that has nothing to do with this thread, Clayton Moore !
This thread is not about the state of American health.
This thread is not about your fantasies about the state of American health.
This thread is not about fictional doctors on TV.
This thread is not about the fact that there are laws that supersede parental authority, e.g. parents are no longer allowed to send children down into coal mines .
This thread is not about the trivial fact that parents(people) can and do question authority(history). Just read the ignorant, paranoid and delusional web sites you like so much ! There are plenty of parents questioning authority there.

This thread is about the paranoid conspiracy theories that we see about vaccines and autism.
If we wanted to be more exact then it is about your support of these paranoid conspiracy theories that we see about vaccines and autism as in the OP:

The proof of the pudding that there are conspiracies at high levels of society is media's insistence that there are NONE.

Let's see. Big pharma and the mainstream media insist vaccines are absolutely safe but close to NONE of the vaccines are tested with a control group. They have convinced much of the American public that questioning the safety of vaccines is criminal.

Yet commercial after commercial airs up front and personal that if you've taken DRUG X, Y, or Z contact my law firm. Now you know those drugs, I think ZOLOFT is the star of the newer ripe for litigation drugs, were supposed to be tested with a control group! What happened.

And the media pretty much crucifies anyone who dares suggest a link between autism and vaccines. Why would the media trust and speak out for an industry/community with such a poor drug testing track record?

And I see that I have not actually answered the OP!
Here goes:

• The proof of the pudding that there are conspiracies at high levels of society would be documented proof of a conspiracy or two!
  It is not pointing to the paranoid delusions of web sites.
  It is not a vague assertion that the media states that there is no conspiracy without any evidence of that.
• Let's see. A coupe of lies:
  • Drug companies and the mainstream media do not insist vaccines are absolutely safe.
    Drug companies, the mainstream media and the science insist that vaccines are mostly safe, some safer than others.
    Drug companies, the mainstream media and the science insist that vaccines have an enormous benefit with tiny costs.
  • Vaccines are tested against control groups.
• Wow - you think that ZOLOFT is a vaccine !
• Another wow - drug companies make mistakes and get sued for it. That is totally amazing, Clayton Moore !
• The media "pretty much crucifies anyone who dares suggest a link between autism and vaccines" because those people are obviously ignorant of the scientific evidence that there is no such link.
  Pointing out that people are making ignorant statements is not crucifying them - it is the people making the statements who are crucifying themselves by displaying their ignorance to the world.
• The media does not (in general) trust the drug companies. They are quite willing to publicize their shortcomings.

And we have a question!
Clayton Moore,
Define what a "poor drug testing track record" is (i.e. what rate of drugs incorrectly passing tests fits the criteria for "poor") and show that all of the drug companies has such a "poor drug testing track record".
First asked 25 June 2013

 

[Clayton Moore]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
...

The vaccine debacle and the near moribund state of American health is what is being ignored by a society of generations glazed over in awe of Dr. Kildare, Young Doctor Malone, Ben Casey, ad Infinitum. If I'm not mistaken the Doctor shows have run their course save for "House." Doctors and medicine cannot be questioned, ever. Laws are being passed which supersede parental authority. Sound familiar? Parents(people) can't question authority(history).

More ranting that has nothing to do with this thread, Clayton Moore !

My statement showed the how and why the medical community is basically never taken to task on the safety of vaccines.

 

[Reality Check]

What is your evidence that the medical community is basically never taken to task...

My statement showed the how and why the medical community is basically never taken to task on the safety of vaccines.

No - your statement was about the (rather dumb because it has nothing to do with this thread) subject of medical shows.

But now you have a new assertion: that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines.
Which needs ... evidence !
Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines?
First asked 25 June 2013 - 0 days and counting.

What does "basically" mean?
Does it mean that you are in denial of all of the research into the safety of vaccines, the legal cases about vaccines, the media coverage?
Does it mean that no case of harm from a vaccine has ever been recorded?
Does it mean that no case of harm from a vaccine has ever been reported in the media?

The fact is that the medical community is always taken to task for the safety of vaccines. That is the purpose of the USA vaccine court - to compensate people for the known side effects of vaccines. The why and why the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines in the USA is that there is a legal mechanism to compensate people who have been harmed by vaccines.

The fact is that the medical community is always taken to task for the safety of vaccines. That is why there are so many stories in the media about the safety of vaccines.

The fact is that the medical community is always taken to task for the safety of vaccines. That is why an Italian court (mistakenly) ruled against the medical community on the safety of a vaccine.

The fact is that the medical community is always taken to task for the safety of vaccines. That is why the medical community actively researches the safety of vaccines to find out just how safe they are !

 

[dafydd]

It's hysterical that so few understand why there were so many doctor's shows to be worshiped.

You owe me a new keyboard.

 

[Dcdrac]

so still no Hard evidence then Clayton just more unsubstantiated waffle

 

[carlitos]

It's hysterical that so few understand why there were so many doctor's shows to be worshiped.

so still no Hard evidence then Clayton just more unsubstantiated waffle

It seems that literally everything is a conspiracy with CM. Vaccines, 9/11, World War II, the NBA, television dramas about doctors. Wow. I thought that "proof by class action lawyer ads on TV" was compelling, but "proof by Marcus Welby?" Really?

 

[Clayton Moore]

It seems that literally everything is a conspiracy with CM. Vaccines, 9/11, World War II, the NBA, television dramas about doctors. Wow. I thought that "proof by class action lawyer ads on TV" was compelling, but "proof by Marcus Welby?" Really?

You don't see any of the doctors shows on anymore do you? If they were on they'd have discuss vaccines and their side effects.

 

[ComfySlippers]

You don't see any of the doctors shows on anymore do you? If they were on they'd have discuss vaccines and their side effects.

?
Is he talking about crappy American daytime soaps?
If so, thats just bizarre.

 

[Dcdrac]

You seriously think Medical Soap operas are a good source for a discussion on vaccines????

 

[carlitos]

"Any of the doctor shows?" In the past 5-10 years, ER, House MD and Grey's Anatomy have all been in the Nielsen broadcast top 20. Royal Pains and Scrubs have been big hits on cable. Biggest Loser and Extreme Makeover and all the forensic shows like CSI deal with medical issues.

I'm sure some special pleading that those doctors aren't all old white guys like in the 60's will follow shortly.

 

[carlitos]

You seriously think Medical Soap operas are a good source for a discussion on vaccines????

Oh, I hadn't even thought of soap operas. Is General Hospital still on?

 

[ComfySlippers]

The vaccine debacle and the near moribund state of American health is what is being ignored by a society of generations glazed over in awe of Dr. Kildare, Young Doctor Malone, Ben Casey, ad Infinitum. If I'm not mistaken the Doctor shows have run their course save for "House." Doctors and medicine cannot be questioned, ever.

Silliest thing ever.