Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[carlitos]

First, They^TM ran the doctor shows to indoctrinate a generation not to question medical authority. Now, They^TM don't run the doctor shows because They^TM don't want to address the vaccine "controversy." They^TM are quite the little planners. I wonder what's next?

 

[Mudcat]

"Any of the doctor shows?" In the past 5-10 years, ER, House MD and Grey's Anatomy have all been in the Nielsen broadcast top 20. Royal Pains and Scrubs have been big hits on cable. Biggest Loser and Extreme Makeover and all the forensic shows like CSI deal with medical issues.

Don't forget that Doctor Who is popular and still going on.

Yeah, I went there.

 

[jaydeehess]

Silliest thing ever.

Given that "House" has run its course.

 

[Reality Check]

You don't see any of the doctors shows on anymore do you? If they were on they'd have discuss vaccines and their side effects.

Wow - I guess you have not seen any television for many years, Clayton Moore.
There have been and still are many "doctors shows" on television, e.g. "House" and "Greys Anatomy" in the US, "Casualty" and "Holby City" in the UK, etc.
The hospital soaps Days of Our Lives and Shortland Street are still going (an illustration of the idiocy of talking about "doctors shows" in this thread).

People who watch television can (in general!) tell the difference between fiction and reality. Your statements, Clayton Moore, make it look like you have the delusion that everyone who watches TV thinks that everything is real !

 

[Reality Check]

Getting back to the actual topic of this thread (rather than what it has become - the parroted paranoid delusions and unsupported assertions from Clayton Moore ):
A blog post about Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (one of the extreme conspiracy theory advocates of a link between vaccines and autism) points out some of the CT tactics (basically quote mining, lying and hypocrisy).
One last trip down memory lane: Orac meets RFK, Jr. for the first time

With the recent reacquaintance of skeptical bloggers with the amazing antivaccine crankery that is Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (specifically, when he decided to use Holocaust analogies for vaccines and autism), I thought it might be fun to go back in time and show you all how it all started.

Hard as it is to believe, it’s eight (!) years since RFK, Jr. first posted his ridiculous conspiracy-mongering piece on Salon.com. If you’re curious about how, after a few tentative dips of my big toe into the ocean of quackery that is the whole vaccine-autism link and its associated “autism biomed” quackery and plunged head first into the deep end of antivaccine quackery, join me in a trip down memory lane and enjoy a particularly tasty piece of classic (Not-So-) Respectful Insolence™ entitled:
Salon.com flushes its credibility down the toilet

 

[crhkrebs]

Just when Clayton's epic FAIL couldn't get more delusional.............

Did he just say that Doctors shows are off the air so that the medical characters, that the TV watching audience ostensibly worships, will not address the dangers of vaccination?

Surely, this is Stundie worthy. Again.

 

[Kid Eager]

You don't see any of the doctors shows on anymore do you? If they were on they'd have discuss vaccines and their side effects.

Utter tosh. They'd be discussing hermaphroditic pigs.

 

[FrederickEason]

You don't see any of the doctors shows on anymore do you? If they were on they'd have discuss vaccines and their side effects.

When House breached the subject of vaccines, it had the titular Dr. House go on a rant against anti-vaxxer parents for refusing to get their infant child vaccinated. One of my favorite episodes.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Still waiting for your evidence that MMR causes autism, Clayton.

I am still waiting for a PubMed indexed study dated before 1990 that autism was observed in the USA after the MMR vaccine was introduced there in 1971. That is over forty years, and almost twenty before Wakefield came on to the scene.

Surely, there was a real effect there would be real documentation to alert Wakefield to the issue. Or, on the other hand, Andrew Wakefield just made it all up. Which explains why his "results" were never replicated.

 

[kookbreaker]

Getting further off topic, which is no big deal since Clayton ''m smartuh then every'un' Moore does more and more to dodge answering questions: Wasn't there a short lived cable program about "Alternative Medicine' doctors healing patients? Failed miserably if I recall.

 

[LSSBB]

Getting further off topic, which is no big deal since Clayton ''m smartuh then every'un' Moore does more and more to dodge answering questions: Wasn't there a short lived cable program about "Alternative Medicine' doctors healing patients? Failed miserably if I recall.

No, smarter than 98.7 people. They probably aren't autistic spectrum either.

 

[jdc324]

I saw an article in nutty alternative health mag What Doctors Don't Tell You and wrote a wee blog post about it: http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2013/06...-tell-you-magazine-bryan-hubbard-measles-mmr/

He seemed to think the DeStefano paper that looked at the number of antigens children received from all vaccines was a study of MMR and autism. The bit where he cherry picked random numbers from the confidence intervals of unadjusted odds ratios was a bit odd too.

 

[torifrog]

I haven't been following this topic and am unaware if there's been any Australian input to it, so I'd just like to briefly discuss the "Australian Vaccination Network" (AVN). Contrary to what its name implies, this organisation is completely anti-vaccination, spewing the misfounded belief that vaccination causes autism (and of course with no reliable evidence presented for consideration). The group have had a major impact in a reasonably sized area of one of our larger states (NSW), and this subsequently led to quite alarming numbers of measles and whooping cough outbreaks, including a number of deaths.

Earlier this year the powers that be directed the AVN to change its name for the good of the public. The AVN haven't done that. AFAIK they've appealed the directive to no avail. So it was with great delight and relief I read that the Senate of the NSW government (upper House of Parliament) have now "passed a motion calling on the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) to disband and cease its campaign against vaccines." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-...g-aust-vaccination-network-to-disband/4779882

Not before time, IMO. I wonder if anything similar happens in other developed countries, or is "freedom of choice" (in name, opinion, speech etc) so sacrosanct it can't be impugned?

 

[ComfySlippers]

But do they show Dr. Kildare on the Australian Vaccination Network?

 

[Reality Check]

I wonder if anything similar happens in other developed countries, or is "freedom of choice" (in name, opinion, speech etc) so sacrosanct it can't be impugned?

There are actually 2 issues here.
One is the fairness in trading under a misleading name and thus the NSW Department of Fair Trading order. This is analogous to a shop advertising that it sells shoes but when customers visit it they find that the shop is selling socks. That is not allowed in many developed countries, e.g. in New Zealand.

Australia does not have explicit freedom of speech (except political) and this is also true in many developed countries. So freedom of speech is not generally sacrosanct. However I suspect that the Australian Senate motion is a statement of the Senates opinion and not an order to actually shut down the AVN.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I haven't been following this topic and am unaware if there's been any Australian input to it, so I'd just like to briefly discuss the "Australian Vaccination Network" (AVN). Contrary to what its name implies, this organisation is completely anti-vaccination, spewing the misfounded belief that vaccination causes autism (and of course with no reliable evidence presented for consideration). The group have had a major impact in a reasonably sized area of one of our larger states (NSW), and this subsequently led to quite alarming numbers of measles and whooping cough outbreaks, including a number of deaths.

Earlier this year the powers that be directed the AVN to change its name for the good of the public. The AVN haven't done that. AFAIK they've appealed the directive to no avail. So it was with great delight and relief I read that the Senate of the NSW government (upper House of Parliament) have now "passed a motion calling on the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) to disband and cease its campaign against vaccines." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-...g-aust-vaccination-network-to-disband/4779882

Not before time, IMO. I wonder if anything similar happens in other developed countries, or is "freedom of choice" (in name, opinion, speech etc) so sacrosanct it can't be impugned?

Vaccines have become junk pseudo science. A new vaccine is worth a billion dollars at least.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/03/12/flu-vaccine-profits.aspx

In the early 1950s, the United States administered four vaccines -- diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and smallpox. Children received 13 doses of four vaccines by the time they were two years old and not more than three vaccines in a single visit.

Today, children may receive as many as 37 doses of 14 vaccines by the age of two, and as many as eight vaccines in a single visit! The United States recommends more vaccines than any country in world. The CDC recommends 48 doses of 14 vaccines by age six, and 69 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18.

During the past 30 years, the number of vaccinations our children receive has tripled, and during that same period of time, the number of children with learning disabilities, ADHD, asthma and diabetes has also more than tripled!

Vaccine makers and proponents will tell you that these statistics are unrelated. But no good scientific evidence currently exists that demonstrates vaccines ARE NOT contributing to the increasing incidence of chronic illness and disability in our children.

More than twice as many children have chronic brain and immune system dysfunction today than they did in the 1970s when half as many vaccines were given to children.

Sadly, today in America:

1 in 6 children is diagnosed with a learning disability
1 in 9 children suffer from asthma
1 in 110 develop autism
1 in 450 become diabetic

Do you honestly believe that as many as 37 doses of 14 vaccines by the age of two, and as many as eight vaccines in a single visit could be medically wise?

 

[torifrog]

Vaccines have become junk pseudo science. A new vaccine is worth a billion dollars at least.

Do you honestly believe that as many as 37 doses of 14 vaccines by the age of two, and as many as eight vaccines in a single visit could be medically wise?

Yep, I do - which is why my kids were totally vaccinated and haven't had to endure the measles, mumps, chicken pox and rubella (x 3 times) *I* had as a child.

PS. 1 in 450 become (type 1) diabetic is standard in all countries except the African ones - and the closer to the poles the higher the rate - and it has nada to do with vaccinations. I was dxed age 4 myself - and WASN'T vaccinated, and new research has shown that NON-vaccinated kids have a HIGHER rate of diagnosis of type 1 DM than vaccinated ones. FACT.

 

[torifrog]

"Vaccine makers and proponents will tell you that these statistics are unrelated. But no good scientific evidence currently exists that demonstrates vaccines ARE NOT contributing to the increasing incidence of chronic illness and disability in our children."

Very good reason for that. It's impossible to prove a negative. Wanna see my purple and pink bonsai dragon? You don't believe I have one? Prove it.

 

[Mudcat]

Very good reason for that. It's impossible to prove a negative. Wanna see my purple and pink bonsai dragon? You don't believe I have one? Prove it.

I saw that the other day, I believe it looked a little like this:

 

[Clayton Moore]

I haven't been following this topic and am unaware if there's been any Australian input to it, so I'd just like to briefly discuss the "Australian Vaccination Network" (AVN). Contrary to what its name implies, this organisation is completely anti-vaccination, spewing the misfounded belief that vaccination causes autism (and of course with no reliable evidence presented for consideration). The group have had a major impact in a reasonably sized area of one of our larger states (NSW), and this subsequently led to quite alarming numbers of measles and whooping cough outbreaks, including a number of deaths.

However, the 2009 "swine flu" pandemic turned out to be very mild – one of the mildest influenza seasons in recent years, in fact! -- while the pandemic H1N1 swine flu vaccine turned out to be HIGHLY reactive.

It has been alleged that the 2009 pandemic H1N1 swine flu vaccine is much more deadly than the swine flu itself. In fact, in 2010 Australia temporarily banned use of seasonal influenza vaccine containing the pandemic H1N1 strain for children under the age of five after 99 children were admitted to the hospital with convulsions after receiving the shot!

The U.S. 2010/2011 seasonal influenza vaccine contains the pandemic H1N1 vaccine strain that caused so many convulsions in Australian children.

Do you understand that a convulsion is a dangerous side effect?



Searches related to cause convulsion Epilepsy A neurological disorder marked by sudden recurrent episodes of sensory disturbance, loss of consciousness, or convulsions, associated with abnormal electrical activity in the brain Meningitis Inflammation of the meninges caused by viral or bacterial infection and marked by intense headache and fever, sensitivity to light, and muscular rigidity, leading to convulsions, delirium, and death Febrile seizure A convulsion associated with a significant rise in body temperature. they most commonly occur in children between the ages of 6 months and 6 (lissauer, tom-illustrated book of paediatrics 4th ed. ... Stroke A sudden disabling attack or loss of consciousness caused by an interruption in the flow of blood to the brain, esp. through thrombosis Brain tumor An abnormal growth of cells within the brain, which can be cancer

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/symptoms/seizures/

Considerations

It may be hard to tell if someone is having a seizure. Some seizures only cause a person to have staring spells. These may go unnoticed.

Specific symptoms depend on what part of the brain is involved. They occur suddenly and may include:

Brief blackout followed by period of confusion (the person cannot remember a period of time)
Changes in behavior such as picking at one's clothing
Drooling or frothing at the mouth
Eye movements
Grunting and snorting
Loss of bladder or bowel control
Mood changes such as sudden anger, unexplainable fear, panic, joy, or laughter
Shaking of the entire body
Sudden falling
Tasting a bitter or metallic flavor
Teeth clenching
Temporary halt in breathing
Uncontrollable muscle spasms with twitching and jerking limbs

Symptoms may stop after a few seconds minutes, or continue for 15 minutes. They rarely continue longer.

The person may have warning symptoms before the attack, such as:

Fear or anxiety
Nausea
Vertigo
Visual symptoms (such as flashing bright lights, spots, or wavy lines before the eyes)

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children

A toddler should be sleeping over a 1/2 a day so the chance of a parent or caretaker not noticing a convulsion is 50%.