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Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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Clayton Moore said:
Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post





Evidence? To present dangerous scenarios?
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What evidence you have that show that they are dangerous? We are not discussing our tastes in music so I am not interested in your opinions. In a matter of this nature evidence is the only thing that counts. Do you have any?
 
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r-j said:
The objections to vaccines have been around since Edward Jenner used cowpox to protect against smallpox. It's hard to believe, but since the early 1800s it was possible to protect the world from smallpox. Why didn't the world embrace the elimination of the dreaded smallpox?

If you don't know that story, and it seems no one posting in this topic does, I suggest you educate yourself.
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Kind of funny coming from someone who doesn't even know about studies testing various combinations of vaccines. Objections to something don't automatically make them valid. There are people who object to the fact that HIV causes AIDS and object to therapies to prevent AIDS. In fact they have been unfortunately successful convincing some credulous government entities of those objections. Doesn't make it true and has had daunting consequences.

It's directly connected to the current link between childhood vaccination and autism. Just because there is no scientific study proving something, doesn't mean there is no link in people's minds.
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Ah so we should just not bother with any more studies and just capitulate to some peoples' delusions. Brilliant.
If you have evidence that anyone has done a single study on multiple vaccinations in childhood, then just link to it. Animal studies are done all the time before we start jabbing babies with something new. Where are the studies giving baby animals 30 vaccines at a time? Just to see if it's even a risk.
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You made the claim that no such thing exists and we are to do your homework? In any event, just a few seconds and you could find examples such as:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198517
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19325447
Hexavac with Hepatitis A
Hexavalent vaccine with Rotateq
DTaP with Hib
PCV-13 with all infant vaccines
MMR and Varicella
PCV-7 with MMR, Hib and Varicella
Pediarix with Hib and Infanrix-hexa
I found more but since you don't bother to read them anyway, I can't waste my time doing what you should have done to begin with.

I also wasn't aware that babies received "30 vaccines at a time", where is your evidence for this?
Might as well throw some mercury preservatives in there as well. How else can you know what can happen?
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Did that and contrary to anti-vaxxer claims, no increase in autism, allergies, asthma, excessive ear wax or paisley toenails.
It would also shut up the people who claim they already know everything.
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Yet here are people like you and Clay still going on about it with zero evidence.

Este
 
Clayton Moore said:
We?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9046728&postcount=4206
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r-j said:
...
If you don't know that story, and it seems no one posting in this topic does, I suggest you educate yourself.

It's directly connected to the current link between childhood vaccination and autism. Just because there is no scientific study proving something, doesn't mean there is no link in people's minds.

....

It would also shut up the people who claim they already know everything.
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Certainly. Do educate us by presenting the data that the MMR introduced in the USA in 1971 caused an increase in autism. Where are those papers from the 1970s and 1980s?

Surely there were two decades worth of the MMR causing autism before Wakefield came on to the scene. How else could he have come up with his hypothesis? Because the only other explanation was that Richard Barr came to him to get "research" to support some lawsuits.
 
r-j, Can you provide valid evidence for the link between autism and the MMR vaccine

r-j said:
The link between sudden onset autism and the MMR vaccine is obvious and abundant.
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Hi r-j, Can you provide valid scientific evidence (and obvious and abundant :D) for the link between sudden onset autism and the MMR vaccine?
Abundant would be a link to the thousands of published papers showing the link :rolleyes:.
Remember that one answer is that there is no such scientific evidence and that there is scientific evidence that there is no link.
First asked 6 March 2013.

ETA: It looks like you are just going on about ignorant people's fantasies about such a link. They do not know that there are scientific studies "proving" that there is no such link.
r-j said:
It's directly connected to the current link between childhood vaccination and autism. Just because there is no scientific study proving something, doesn't mean there is no link in people's minds.
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Wow, r-j, are you obsessing on the trivial fact that there are ignorant people in the world :jaw-dropp!
 
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Clayton Moore said:
And most of the medical community, after seeing what happened to Wakefield, refuses to rock the boat.
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Actually most of the medical community, after seeing what happened to Wakefield, refuses to torture children and hide their conflicts of interest.
To be even more exact: Most of the medical community has always refused to torture children and hide their conflicts of interest. Wakefield is an exception and thus was rightfully struck off the medical register.
 
Estellea said:
Kind of funny coming from someone who doesn't even know about studies testing various combinations of vaccines. Objections to something don't automatically make them valid. There are people who object to the fact that HIV causes AIDS and object to therapies to prevent AIDS. In fact they have been unfortunately successful convincing some credulous government entities of those objections. Doesn't make it true and has had daunting consequences.


Ah so we should just not bother with any more studies and just capitulate to some peoples' delusions. Brilliant.

You made the claim that no such thing exists and we are to do your homework? In any event, just a few seconds and you could find examples such as:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198517
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19325447
Hexavac with Hepatitis A
Hexavalent vaccine with Rotateq
DTaP with Hib
PCV-13 with all infant vaccines
MMR and Varicella
PCV-7 with MMR, Hib and Varicella
Pediarix with Hib and Infanrix-hexa
I found more but since you don't bother to read them anyway, I can't waste my time doing what you should have done to begin with.

I also wasn't aware that babies received "30 vaccines at a time", where is your evidence for this?

Did that and contrary to anti-vaxxer claims, no increase in autism, allergies, asthma, excessive ear wax or paisley toenails.

Yet here are people like you and Clay still going on about it with zero evidence.

Este
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And here's a summary study I previously posted from the Academy of Medicine that confirmed the safety of the current US multiple vaccine schedule:

http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2013/The-Childhood-Immunization-Schedule-and-Safety.aspx

I know Clayton saw it because he dismissed it based on two specific criticisms: there was an extra blank page in it, and you can't trust any of those scientists or doctors anyway.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post


Evidence? To present dangerous scenarios?
Click to expand...

Yes, generally if you are presenting possible dangerous scenarios to argue against vaccines, which help save people's lives, you should provide evidence. If this thread is instead meant as a way to develop a plot for a horror fiction story, then fine, but just move the thread to "Literature."
 
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Yeah well what about the Black Shakes from Johnny Mnemonic? When do we get to figure that out?

I bet that was really caused by those vaccinations too. :rolleyes:
 
It simple there is no link between MMR, Vccines and Autism.

vaccines on the whole are safe and have saved billions of lives.

A quack fraud called Andrew Wakfield published bogus self serving research that lead to a scare which meant that thousnads of Children in the UK were not vaccinated and ended up getting measles and suffering.

the anti vaccnination people have a lot to answer for.
 
Yes.

r-j said:
...It's directly connected to the current link between childhood vaccination and autism. Just because there is no scientific study proving something, doesn't mean there is no link in people's minds. ....
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Could you post up just what that 'current link is, please?

r-j said:
Yes yes, but that's because you know nothing about the history of vaccines.
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Could you post up what makes you think that, please?

Estellea said:
...
You made the claim that no such thing exists and we are to do your homework? In any event, just a few seconds and you could find examples such as:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198517
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19325447
Hexavac with Hepatitis A
Hexavalent vaccine with Rotateq
DTaP with Hib
PCV-13 with all infant vaccines
MMR and Varicella
PCV-7 with MMR, Hib and Varicella
Pediarix with Hib and Infanrix-hexa
I found more but since you don't bother to read them anyway, I can't waste my time doing what you should have done to begin with.

I also wasn't aware that babies received "30 vaccines at a time", where is your evidence for this?

Did that and contrary to anti-vaxxer claims, no increase in autism, allergies, asthma, excessive ear wax or paisley toenails.

Yet here are people like you and Clay still going on about it with zero evidence.

Este
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Thanks for the links, Este.

Dcdrac said:
...http://www.historyofvaccines.org/
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Thanks, Dcdrac.

Reality Check said:
That is a probelm with education, not medicine. People should be made aware that Nature injects multiple live vaccines into infants all of the time.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6201a2.htm great information!
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Thanks, Reality Check.
Is there some reason why neither CM nor r-j post up actual studies, just youtube vids?

Giordano said:
And here's a summary study I previously posted from the Academy of Medicine that confirmed the safety of the current US multiple vaccine schedule:

http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2013/The-Childhood-Immunization-Schedule-and-Safety.aspx

I know Clayton saw it because he dismissed it based on two specific criticisms: there was an extra blank page in it, and you can't trust any of those scientists or doctors anyway.
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CM, what would convince you there is no link between vaxx and autism?
 
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http://www.immunizeforgood.com/fact-or-fiction/autism


"FACT: Vaccines do not cause autism.”

Autism can be an extremely challenging diagnosis for parents and physicians. Some parents might attribute a connection between vaccines and their child’s autism diagnosis because of the timing when children begin exhibiting signs of autism.

Even with the best diagnosis available, children do not start showing the earliest signs of autism until 6 to 18 months. Sometimes, these signs are so subtle that physicians and parents miss them.

The CDC recommends that children receive the MMR vaccine at 12 to 18 months -- the same time frame children begin to show diagnosable signs of autism. This is likely one reason why some parents confuse a connection between the MMR vaccine and their child’s first signs of autism."
 
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