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Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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I'm with you on this. Where are the scientific studies on children who receive vaccines? Not individual ones, on the entire issue.

It's not impossible to use animals and vaccines to see if it's even possible to create health problems by using too many vaccines. Where are the studies to show the safety of 20 or 30 vaccines in infant animals?

Obviously no study of infant children would ever be allowed.

But certainly animal studies could be done to see if it's even a possibility that too many challenges to an undeveloped immune system could lead to health problems.
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Two minutes on PubMed can be educational. For example, you find that there is research into the safety of vaccines in infants. It turns out that infants are at greater risk for infectious diseases. Here are two studies that look at vaccines in premature and low birth weight infants:

Abstract

"Infections are more common and generally more severe in neonates and young children than in older children and adults, mainly because immune defenses are functionally impaired in early life. The seriousness of the infectious problems of premature infants (PIs) is proportional to how premature they are, but irrespective of this, they are more serious than those of full-term infants because their immune system is compromised to a greater extent. This review analyzes our knowledge of the characteristics of the developing immune system, the impact of possible impairments on immunization, the real response of PIs to vaccines and the safety and tolerability of different vaccines. Overall, the data indicate that PIs should follow the same vaccination schedule as that generally used for full-term infants, without correcting for prematurity and regardless of birthweight. However, there is an urgent need for further studies concerning the use of recently marketed vaccines and those that will be marketed in the near future."

PMID

23176653

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23176653/?i=9&from=vaccine schedule safety

"Vaccines are immunogenic, safe and well tolerated in PTIs and LBWIs, in whom early active immunisation is particularly important because they are among the most vulnerable subjects for pediatric infectious diseases. It is therefore essential to make every effort to convince pediatricians and parents that compliance with these recommendations will not cause any clinical problems."

PMID

19775838

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19775838/?i=6&from=/23176653/related
 
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r-j said:
Injecting multiple vaccines into infants, with no long term safety/side effects studies, in regards to what can happen with multiple vaccines (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6201a2.htm yikes!) is scary to the uneducated. It's enough to get people wondering if it's possible modern medicine is actually creating new conditions, created by the huge amount of vaccines. Now that is not a conspiracy theory, as it does not require any devious whispering among the powerful, or any intent to harm.

But it's something. Pretending it isn't a valid concern, dismissing the very idea it could be causing problems, now that seems more like a conspiracy of some sort.

Because it's hard to imagine the highly educated medical leaders of the modern world could be that stupid. To not do studies and double blind testing of all the vaccines together, not just individual vaccines.
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I find it very disturbing that someone such as you could make such a charge without one shred of literature-searching. Spinning yarns out of fear and ignorance is the very basis for a conspiracy theory. Vaccines are tested against other vaccines in various combinations. That you didn't know this with just a modicum of searching is frightening.

r-j said:
I'm with you on this. Where are the scientific studies on children who receive vaccines? Not individual ones, on the entire issue.

It's not impossible to use animals and vaccines to see if it's even possible to create health problems by using too many vaccines. Where are the studies to show the safety of 20 or 30 vaccines in infant animals?

Obviously no study of infant children would ever be allowed.

But certainly animal studies could be done to see if it's even a possibility that too many challenges to an undeveloped immune system could lead to health problems.
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While it sure would be nice, what animals? What are you looking for? Wouldn't it be better to make that determination in the target species? Again, without any hint of some background on this matter, health outcomes are being prospectively collected in a massive, longitudinal study in the U.S. You are also remarkably unaware of the VSD which has generated numerous studies of vaccine safety and adverse events. Our knowledge isn't perfect and I would like to see some more longitudinal, well-designed studies on environmental health effects but continuing to bleat on about this vaccine autism thing is not a productive nor viable matter.

Este
 
The vacuousness and the departure from good old common sense by the vaxer lemmings is a tragedy.

Approval of an infant getting over 1/2 dozen vaccines injected into their tiny bodies during ONE well baby visit is beyond insane.

Begin with the fact you have no way of knowing how healthy a baby is at any one time. An illness could be brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours. So what have you done? Given the infant one vaccine to contend with along with the soon to present itself illness? No, you've given the infant over 6 vaccines to contend with along with the soon to present itself illness.

And that's just one example, the tip of the iceberg.

Giving multiple vaccines to infants is bad medicine.


I've read that vaccine studies include only the healthiest 40% of children. The other 60%? How do they cope with 6 or more vaccines when an illness is brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours.

How do the 20% least healthy infants cope with 6 or more vaccines when an illness is brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours?


Giving multiple vaccines to infants is bad medicine.
 
Once again clayton you have failed to provide any evidence at all


Where is your HARD evidence?
 
Clayton Moore said:
The vacuousness and the departure from good old common sense by the vaxer lemmings is a tragedy.

Approval of an infant getting over 1/2 dozen vaccines injected into their tiny bodies during ONE well baby visit is beyond insane.

Begin with the fact you have no way of knowing how healthy a baby is at any one time. An illness could be brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours. So what have you done? Given the infant one vaccine to contend with along with the soon to present itself illness? No, you've given the infant over 6 vaccines to contend with along with the soon to present itself illness.

And that's just one example, the tip of the iceberg.

Giving multiple vaccines to infants is bad medicine.


I've read that vaccine studies include only the healthiest 40% of children. The other 60%? How do they cope with 6 or more vaccines when an illness is brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours.

How do the 20% least healthy infants cope with 6 or more vaccines when an illness is brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours?


Giving multiple vaccines to infants is bad medicine.
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Your misguided opinions are not evidence. Denying children protection against diseases is bad. No amount of insults will replace the evidence that you do not have.
 
The objections to vaccines have been around since Edward Jenner used cowpox to protect against smallpox. It's hard to believe, but since the early 1800s it was possible to protect the world from smallpox. Why didn't the world embrace the elimination of the dreaded smallpox?

If you don't know that story, and it seems no one posting in this topic does, I suggest you educate yourself.

It's directly connected to the current link between childhood vaccination and autism. Just because there is no scientific study proving something, doesn't mean there is no link in people's minds.

If you have evidence that anyone has done a single study on multiple vaccinations in childhood, then just link to it. Animal studies are done all the time before we start jabbing babies with something new. Where are the studies giving baby animals 30 vaccines at a time? Just to see if it's even a risk.

Might as well throw some mercury preservatives in there as well. How else can you know what can happen?

It would also shut up the people who claim they already know everything.
 
dafydd said:
Denying children protection against diseases is bad.
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Now that is the sort of thing everybody agrees with. The problem is, some believe a multitude of vaccines in early childhood brings it's own risk, and that ASD and allergies and asthma and all kinds of increases in health problems are connected to the vaccines.

That the "other side" says that is insanity and there is no evidence for any of that, does not help. Children and their well being is a very emotional issue. If somebody has linked vaccines and health problems in their mind, it's not going to change anything to tell them they are also now an insane person for questioning authority.

In fact, it may very well cement their opinion of YOU as some sort of uncaring monster.

Which is also part of the history of vaccines.
 
And yet science and experience keep showing and telling us vaccines work and do save lives.

Again r-j where is your HARD evidence to the contrary?
 
The only monster I can see in the history of vaccines is Andrew Wakefield, this quack put his own interests above those of his victims, namely those children who got measles becasue of the false scare he generated as a result of his false research.
 
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Yes yes, but that's because you know nothing about the history of vaccines.
 
r-j said:
Now that is the sort of thing everybody agrees with. The problem is, some believe a multitude of vaccines in early childhood brings it's own risk, and that ASD and allergies and asthma and all kinds of increases in health problems are connected to the vaccines.

That the "other side" says that is insanity and there is no evidence for any of that, does not help. Children and their well being is a very emotional issue. If somebody has linked vaccines and health problems in their mind, it's not going to change anything to tell them they are also now an insane person for questioning authority.

In fact, it may very well cement their opinion of YOU as some sort of uncaring monster.

Which is also part of the history of vaccines.
Click to expand...

Belief is not enough. Evidence is the thing. Got any?
 
Clayton Moore said:
The vacuousness and the departure from good old common sense by the vaxer lemmings is a tragedy.

Approval of an infant getting over 1/2 dozen vaccines injected into their tiny bodies during ONE well baby visit is beyond insane.

Begin with the fact you have no way of knowing how healthy a baby is at any one time. An illness could be brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours. So what have you done? Given the infant one vaccine to contend with along with the soon to present itself illness? No, you've given the infant over 6 vaccines to contend with along with the soon to present itself illness.

And that's just one example, the tip of the iceberg.

Giving multiple vaccines to infants is bad medicine.


I've read that vaccine studies include only the healthiest 40% of children. The other 60%? How do they cope with 6 or more vaccines when an illness is brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours.

How do the 20% least healthy infants cope with 6 or more vaccines when an illness is brewing and due to show symptoms in 2 or 3 hours?


Giving multiple vaccines to infants is bad medicine.
Click to expand...

Keep waving those hands around, I think you're pretty close to getting airborne.
 
zooterkin said:
Keep waving those hands around, I think you're pretty close to getting airborne.
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At least he's got a buddy now to catch him when he falls. Still no evidence of a link between vaccination and autism. Ho hum.
 
r-j said:
The objections to vaccines have been around since Edward Jenner used cowpox to protect against smallpox. It's hard to believe, but since the early 1800s it was possible to protect the world from smallpox. Why didn't the world embrace the elimination of the dreaded smallpox?
Click to expand...

It did. Smallpox has been eradicated. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.
 
zooterkin said:
It did. Smallpox has been eradicated. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.
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He's probably been flummoxed by the lack of YooToob videos showing the world celebrating the eradication of smallpox.
 
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