dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
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hmmm maybe. do you have more success explaining yourself elsewhere?
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Understanding the Conservative Mindset
- Thread starter smartcooky
- Start date
hmmm maybe. do you have more success explaining yourself elsewhere?
Beelzebuddy
Penultimate Amazing
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Ah, but it's a priceless insight directly into the Conservative Mindset! To wit: constantly frothing about hated enemies both real and perceived.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
This is pretty much the only place I ever discuss politics.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Me too.
dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
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oh ok. just wondering.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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I think we might be able to reduce differences in Mindset to whether you have Main Character Syndrome or not.
I would say conservatives tend to be isolationists, not right wingers.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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I think you're making my point. The terms left and right, conservative, liberal dont fit into foreign policy.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
And they frequently don't fit into economic policy either. Or social policy. Which really makes me wonder what use the terms actually are.
To make an "us" group and a "them" group.
The true image of an elusive political spectrum one fits into is both 5D chess anda patchwork quilt.
If I say I am conservative but absolutely do not support Maga, Trump or current templates of what YOU think it means? You have every right to tell me I am not conservative.
Just change to liberal, libertarian but not in open support of the issues and people involved in the current state of affairs, all the same.
Regional differences like an area where extremes in alt right, strong religious beliefs or deep set left ideals abound will color us. You see it as painted from your area but area judging me in mine.
How does one take the Isreal/ Palestine conflict? Do you forgive radical terrorists a bit for standing up for thier poor and defenseless? Do you support a nation's right to defend totally against terrorism? Do you piss off both sides and just wish both sides would stop killing each other?
Can you separate Hamas from Palestinians as a bad element or not, same for Isreal and it's leadership.
If I take a stand and answer these for all to read you can judge me for being more right, more wrong or wishy washy and hate me for it any way I lean.
Either way it is not on us to fix this mess. It's on the warring parties. Only they can stop shooting each other.
It's all part of the patchwork each of us is. Every issue, every event, every decision and it's consequences will define each of us and probably make someone else a bit unhappy.
That's all we really are choosing, who we help and who we hinder.
If I say I am conservative but absolutely do not support Maga, Trump or current templates of what YOU think it means? You have every right to tell me I am not conservative.
Just change to liberal, libertarian but not in open support of the issues and people involved in the current state of affairs, all the same.
Regional differences like an area where extremes in alt right, strong religious beliefs or deep set left ideals abound will color us. You see it as painted from your area but area judging me in mine.
How does one take the Isreal/ Palestine conflict? Do you forgive radical terrorists a bit for standing up for thier poor and defenseless? Do you support a nation's right to defend totally against terrorism? Do you piss off both sides and just wish both sides would stop killing each other?
Can you separate Hamas from Palestinians as a bad element or not, same for Isreal and it's leadership.
If I take a stand and answer these for all to read you can judge me for being more right, more wrong or wishy washy and hate me for it any way I lean.
Either way it is not on us to fix this mess. It's on the warring parties. Only they can stop shooting each other.
It's all part of the patchwork each of us is. Every issue, every event, every decision and it's consequences will define each of us and probably make someone else a bit unhappy.
That's all we really are choosing, who we help and who we hinder.
dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
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interesting interview with nick shirley, the guy who went viral for the somali daycare fraud thing. covers a lot of conservative grievance from all lives matter to being unfairly labeled maga despite total agreement with maga on every single issue brought up. anyway check out around 31:30 where he and andrew discuss how he can better relate to the conservatives in his audience
edit
it’s a cool interview they talk about a lot of stuff and andrew does a great job of asking open questions and letting the guy speak
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
How about "one of the threads came first"... or didn't that liberal progressive mind of yours think of that
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Still bashing liberal progressives in the thread in which the topic is the conservative mindset. Please try to stay on topic.How about "one of the threads came first"... or didn't that liberal progressive mind of yours think of that
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Understanding the conservative mindset:
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Renee Good ignored lawful orders from police, and continued to operate a 1.5 ton killing machine. Charlie Kirk complied with all laws, regulations, and lawful orders, and never operated anything more dangerous than his right to free speech.
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
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This is true, and it colors the thinking of our non-US posters. They think they understand the US system, and yet they will still insist that an AOC or Mamdani could win the presidency.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
"Balance".
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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They really should combine these two threads. Basically two groups insulting each other. Often with strawman arguments.
Cain
Straussian
However one wishes to define this amorphous "conservative mindest," I think the first thing we should do is appreciate it. Welcome cognitive diversity. We need all kinds of people and points of view, especially with the rise of AI, which threatens to homogenize our culture and undermine our cognitive sovereignty. We need ecosystems where people can challenge each others ideas.
Diversity. That's supposed to be part of the liberal mindset, but you wouldn't know it judging by the so-called liberals in the Cancel Culture thread. Tribalism seems a far more powerful force than temperament or ideology. I'd think conservative ideologues would oppose the US's generous support for Israel. I'd think conservatives would support solar power as it promotes independence from the government.
Anyway, Jonathan Haidt and others argue that there are psychological differences between conservatives and liberals. The latter tend to be more open to new experiences, prioritizing novelty. I was teaching a class when I wandered into a digression on contemporary cathedrals and pyramids: Presidential libraries.
I showed the good, Palestine-loving "left-wing" college students a picture of Obama's disgusting minecraft atrocity. I suppose they are slightly Obama-critical, but he's still their spiritual king. A younger, wiser Morgan Freeman. "You wanna see the Clinton library?" So I Googled that massive piece of ◊◊◊◊ -- a double-wide on stilts. Then I showed the Bush libraries. The Reagan Library. A Black student, almost pained, remarked, "But... why are the Republican ones so much nicer?" Cultural elites tend to prefer that which is different. This is also true in movies and literature. If you've seen every goddamn movie, then you're like, "So this is Die Hard in the White House." You know all of the plot beats. Commercial films are not subtle -- can't be. But if you don't watch a lot of movies, then it doesn't matter as much that material is being recycled because it's new to you. If you're not a sophisticated viewer, then it needs to be spoon-fed. Most of all, "subverting expectations" is just a straight downgrade because you don't really know what to expect.
Trump is not a conservative in any meaningful ideological sense, but he has a 50s aesthetic people find compelling. Fox News has an aesthetic people find compelling. The most legible description of fascism I've ever encountered states what it valorizes: youth, beauty, and power. The people swirling in the constellation of conservative values are more feral in their beliefs. More likely to celebrate instincts. More native.* For the left, broadly speaking, instincts are something we must overcome with education. Humans are likely primed for superstition, eating animals, accruing resources for one's kin. We're natural dualists, essentialists, teleologists, and zero-sum-ers. Hannah Arendt says that every civilization is invaded by barbarians: "We call them 'children.'"
Chesterton's Fence has always been kind of weird because it's so obviously similar to the precautionary principle embraced by the left. Environmentalists can be hard-core conservatives in that they want to conserve the environment. If you have people and politicans who want to keep New Deal and Great Society infrastructure in place, then they are conserving. People who want to eviscerate it advocate for relatively radical change. Chesterton, "the prince of paradoxes," said that Kipling had a "small patriotism." Kipling loved Great Britain because it was powerful. The same goes for Donald Trump. Of course, a much better reason a person loves their country is because it's theirs. Home. You love your country simply because you were born into it. As far as I can tell, there's nothing good about Mississippi. No sane person would choose to be born there rather than California. But some people are born there. And some people are born to be Jets fans. They didn't choose to be Jets fans. Nobody would. Still, they derive meaning and maybe purpose from their suffering. From their struggle. I vaguely recall a foreign-born guy writing an international best-seller about their struggles.
Conservatives love to say that everyone is conservative about what they love. They want to keep it the same. Even if you advocate change for an organization you belong to, it's probably because it will make the group stronger.
*I'd agree the identity politics left can be similar to the right when it comes to celebrating romantic notions of "authenticity." It's also pretty illiberal.
Diversity. That's supposed to be part of the liberal mindset, but you wouldn't know it judging by the so-called liberals in the Cancel Culture thread. Tribalism seems a far more powerful force than temperament or ideology. I'd think conservative ideologues would oppose the US's generous support for Israel. I'd think conservatives would support solar power as it promotes independence from the government.
Anyway, Jonathan Haidt and others argue that there are psychological differences between conservatives and liberals. The latter tend to be more open to new experiences, prioritizing novelty. I was teaching a class when I wandered into a digression on contemporary cathedrals and pyramids: Presidential libraries.
I showed the good, Palestine-loving "left-wing" college students a picture of Obama's disgusting minecraft atrocity. I suppose they are slightly Obama-critical, but he's still their spiritual king. A younger, wiser Morgan Freeman. "You wanna see the Clinton library?" So I Googled that massive piece of ◊◊◊◊ -- a double-wide on stilts. Then I showed the Bush libraries. The Reagan Library. A Black student, almost pained, remarked, "But... why are the Republican ones so much nicer?" Cultural elites tend to prefer that which is different. This is also true in movies and literature. If you've seen every goddamn movie, then you're like, "So this is Die Hard in the White House." You know all of the plot beats. Commercial films are not subtle -- can't be. But if you don't watch a lot of movies, then it doesn't matter as much that material is being recycled because it's new to you. If you're not a sophisticated viewer, then it needs to be spoon-fed. Most of all, "subverting expectations" is just a straight downgrade because you don't really know what to expect.
Trump is not a conservative in any meaningful ideological sense, but he has a 50s aesthetic people find compelling. Fox News has an aesthetic people find compelling. The most legible description of fascism I've ever encountered states what it valorizes: youth, beauty, and power. The people swirling in the constellation of conservative values are more feral in their beliefs. More likely to celebrate instincts. More native.* For the left, broadly speaking, instincts are something we must overcome with education. Humans are likely primed for superstition, eating animals, accruing resources for one's kin. We're natural dualists, essentialists, teleologists, and zero-sum-ers. Hannah Arendt says that every civilization is invaded by barbarians: "We call them 'children.'"
Chesterton's Fence has always been kind of weird because it's so obviously similar to the precautionary principle embraced by the left. Environmentalists can be hard-core conservatives in that they want to conserve the environment. If you have people and politicans who want to keep New Deal and Great Society infrastructure in place, then they are conserving. People who want to eviscerate it advocate for relatively radical change. Chesterton, "the prince of paradoxes," said that Kipling had a "small patriotism." Kipling loved Great Britain because it was powerful. The same goes for Donald Trump. Of course, a much better reason a person loves their country is because it's theirs. Home. You love your country simply because you were born into it. As far as I can tell, there's nothing good about Mississippi. No sane person would choose to be born there rather than California. But some people are born there. And some people are born to be Jets fans. They didn't choose to be Jets fans. Nobody would. Still, they derive meaning and maybe purpose from their suffering. From their struggle. I vaguely recall a foreign-born guy writing an international best-seller about their struggles.
Conservatives love to say that everyone is conservative about what they love. They want to keep it the same. Even if you advocate change for an organization you belong to, it's probably because it will make the group stronger.
*I'd agree the identity politics left can be similar to the right when it comes to celebrating romantic notions of "authenticity." It's also pretty illiberal.