Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

[ShadowSot]

Heh, maybe you could organize something along the lines of the Comicon counter protest?

 

[Thunder]

Heh, maybe you could organize something along the lines of the Comicon counter protest?

protests require permits.

 

[GreNME]

Thunder, how about carrying a sign with a text along the lines of Muslims died for us on 9/11...

Mohammed Salman Hamdani

That would be an awesome idea, and in fact I may try to see if I can do something like this myself (since I doubt parky will).

 

[Thunder]

That would be an awesome idea, and in fact I may try to see if I can do something like this myself (since I doubt parky will).

what r u saying?

 

[Bell]

That would be an awesome idea, and in fact I may try to see if I can do something like this myself (since I doubt parky will).

Great! That would be awesome if you could do this GreNME! Thanks!

 

[Thunder]

it is possible that if i try go to the protest wearing an Obama t-shirt, the NYPD will stop me and tell me to go the other way. they may accuse me of trying to stir things up..which obviously would be the point of the shirt.

so...I'll just show up wearing this one instead.

hee hee

 

[Elind]

You're not even trying to be intellectually honest at this point. Imam Feisal said he's open to foreign donations, not that he's ready to accept money from the Saudi or Iranian government.

So, swing and a miss for you. Again. Want to give another go?

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You don't really have to. What you could do, however, is be the first to provide anything resembling a rational argument against the building of Park51. I'm willing to wager you can't.

I have given no arguments why it should be forbidden, if that is what you mean. I have only expressed opinions why it is not a good idea, and should have been seen as such by the organizers before the **** hit the fan.

I have also said that I personally find very distasteful the thought that the son of the $10,000,000 check tries to sneak back in. Open financial disclosure which we have not seen, would settle that, one way or the other.

For what it's worth, I also don't like the thought that American Muslims can't build this monument on their own. Muslims have plenty of traditional places to worship and play (some forbidden to the likes of me, and most of you reading), they don't need another one in the USA, but American are free to do what they want, and deal with any fallout.

 

[Elind]

Not a fan of Bush, nope. However, I highly doubt Bush would hire a Muslim terrorist. Why do you?

Bush was too smart for that eh?

However, it is you who hijack the logic here. Who said Rauf (I presume that is who you mean) was a terrorist?

 

[Bell]

For what it's worth, I also don't like the thought that American Muslims can't build this monument on their own. Muslims have plenty of traditional places to worship and play (some forbidden to the likes of me, and most of you reading), they don't need another one in the USA, but American are free to do what they want, and deal with any fallout.

How do you decide if Muslims have plenty of places to worship?

 

[Elind]

Islam did not commit 9/11. The terrorist organization al Qaeda makes up less than %99.9999 of the world's population of Muslims. Surely you can see the error here.

I'm backtracking posts here, obviously.

This one is amusing.

Sounds like you say that % 0.00001 of the Muslim world's population is a card carrying Al Qaeda operative (linky to the CIA please?), and that those are the only ones causing a problem for us (and many Muslims).

Assuming you concede that there might be other dangerous characters around, of the Islamic variety, do you think that Hizbullah is % 0.00001 of the Lebanese population? That Hamas is % 0.00001 of the Palestinians? That the Taliban is % 0.00001 of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Somali crazies, Yemen, Iraq? Did I mention Iran, Saudi? Did I mention those who feed, fund and house the 0.00001 percenters, or say, the 60% percenters in Pakistan who think the USA is their enemy?

Enough?

 

[Elind]

How do you decide if Muslims have plenty of places to worship?

I meant in the context of monuments to the faith. They could build or rent hundreds of places to worship with $100,000,000, and I would object to none if Americans paid for it themselves.

If the purpose of this project was to bridge a culture gap, they screwed it up royally.

 

[Thunder]

Hezbollah and Hamas have never attacked the USA.

 

[Thunder]

If the purpose of this project was to bridge a culture gap, they screwed it up royally.

and who's fault is that? surely not the bigots and extremists who have turned this into a national political issue.

 

[Bell]

I meant in the context of monuments to the faith. They could build or rent hundreds of places to worship with $100,000,000.

If the purpose of this project was to bridge a culture gap, they screwed it up royally.

Actually it's the bigots who are screwing this up.

 

[GreNME]

I have also said that I personally find very distasteful the the thought that the son of the $10,000,000 check tries to sneak back in. Open financial disclosure which we have not seen, would settle that, one way or the other.

You really have no idea how much this is a complete red herring, do you? From their FAQs:

Who is funding the community center?

No funds for this project have been raised to date. A project of this scale will require very diverse fundraising sources, including individuals from all faiths and beliefs –who are committed to peace and understanding. We expect that our sources of funding will include individuals of different religions, charitable organizations, public funds, institutional and corporate sponsors.

You will need a lot of contributors. Who will review your donor list?

The New York Charities Bureau and the US Treasury Department will review the donor list to assure that all funding sources are vetted to their satisfaction and approved. In addition, our Trustees and Advisory Board will be comprised of a multi-faith group of distinguished individuals who will ensure that the community center stays true to its objectives of peace, tolerance and understanding between all.​

The funding for the project is going to be vetted by the US Treasury and the NY Charities Bureau. Your talk about "open" funding makes no sense considering they are going to be disclosing the funds. You just seem to have some weird idea that they should be done in a press release list in some media outlet or something. Instead of believing the lies being spouted in the form of leading questions like this, why not actually look to see if there are actually answers? It took me less than a minute to find that answer directly from them-- how long have you honestly looked for an answer to your "question" posed?

For what it's worth, I also don't like the thought that American Muslims can't build this monument on their own. Muslims have plenty of traditional places to worship and play (some forbidden to the likes of me, and most of you reading), they don't need another one in the USA, but American are free to do what they want, and deal with any fallout.

For what it's worth, the Cordoba Initiative is an international organization who is doing outreach in more than the US. The facilities for exercise, swimming, daycare, and so on are provided to Americans because it's going to be built in an American city. Your weird characterization that American Muslims somehow can't do this on their own makes no sense because it comes across as filled with assumptions about the organization behind the project and the scope of their goals.

And all it took was a brief Google search (though you could have just looked on their website). Does that answer your questions?

 

[A'isha]

I meant in the context of monuments to the faith. They could build or rent hundreds of places to worship with $100,000,000, and I would object to none if Americans paid for it themselves.

Maybe that's because they aren't intending it to be a "monument to the faith" and want it it be a lot more than just a place to worship.

If the purpose of this project was to bridge a culture gap, they screwed it up royally.

So you're upset that they've failed in their attempt to reach out to the community at large by not building just a mosque to be a "monument to the faith", but instead wanting to build a community center with a pool, classrooms, a gym, a basketball court, and a memorial to the 9/11 attacks?

Is this some kind of new anti-logic I haven't heard about?

 

[Thunder]

how about this?

they scrap the mosque part, and just build an Islamic community center.

would that be ok?

 

[Bell]

For the bigots:



More than 40 years ago but still relevant.

On the Mindless Menace of Violence.

 

[A'isha]

Absolutely relevant.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. For when you teach a man to hate and to fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies that he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your home or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and to be mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens. Alien men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in a common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short. The work to be done is too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in this land of ours. Of course we cannot banish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment that they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goals, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at the least, to look around at those of us of our fellow man, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

 

[Elind]

Does that answer your questions?

No it doesn't because it is not illegal for the Saudis or anyone else to fund it, once properly laundered.

I am only saying I wouldn't like foreigners doing it. Why would they want to send money here for swimming pools and the like anyway, when Gazans are in poverty?

As to no money has been raised; I don't buy it. I've already said, nobody plans a project this size and waits for money to rain down from Allah. They have much of it pledged.