Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

Thunder said:
and who's fault is that? surely not the bigots and extremists who have turned this into a national political issue.
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There are plenty of those bigots to be sure, probably among them are the 20% who think Obama is a secrit mooslim.

That does not mean that everyone who doesn't LIKE it is a bigot, but I realize that is a hard distinction for you to make.
 
Elind said:
There are plenty of those bigots to be sure, probably among them are the 20% who think Obama is a secrit mooslim.

That does not mean that everyone who doesn't LIKE it is a bigot, but I realize that is a hard distinction for you to make.
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Is there any reason to oppose this project that doesn't boil down to either "I'm a bigot and I'm upset by this, so I don't like it" or "There's a lot of anger and controversy about this from bigots who don't like it and are upset by it, so I don't like it"?
 
ANTPogo said:
So you're upset that they've failed in their attempt to reach out to the community at large by not building just a mosque to be a "monument to the faith", but instead wanting to build a community center with a pool, classrooms, a gym, a basketball court, and a memorial to the 9/11 attacks?
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You are not paying attention are you?

It is amazing how one has to repeat oneself sometimes.

They should be upset. I'm not upset that they screw up their own PR.

Did they really just think "build it and they will come", and sneak it in at that and become a political football as well?

I could fill this page with trivial suggestions about how to build solidarity with the USA by promoting and donating a non denominational, non religious, community center the the city of NY, with perhaps a museum of Islamic culture included. Getting support, lobbying for non Muslim donations, and more....

....why I bother.
 
ANTPogo said:
Is there any reason to oppose this project that doesn't boil down to either "I'm a bigot and I'm upset by this, so I don't like it" or "There's a lot of anger and controversy about this from bigots who don't like it and are upset by it, so I don't like it"?
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I think you are colorblind and have only two colors. Bigot and non bigot.
 
Elind said:
There are plenty of those bigots to be sure, probably among them are the 20% who think Obama is a secrit mooslim.

That does not mean that everyone who doesn't LIKE it is a bigot, but I realize that is a hard distinction for you to make.
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please give us examples of anti-Mosque spokespeople who are not bigoted against Muslims and Islam. provide their reasons as well.
 
Elind said:
You are not paying attention are you?

It is amazing how one has to repeat oneself sometimes.

They should be upset. I'm not upset that they screw up their own PR.

Did they really just think "build it and they will come", and sneak it in at that
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Well, it worked (to the point where even conservative radio host Laura Ingraham guest hosting the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox News told the wife of the Imam behind this project that she thought they were doing good work with the proposed community center). Then the crazy woman who once tried to push the story that Malcom X was secretly President Obama's father decided to make this a big controversy, and the right-wing media duly (including the aforementioned Laura Ingraham, who in a burst of history-rewriting that would do Orwell proud) suddenly decided that this project was worthy of "concern" to all right-thinking Americans.

So I hope you'll forgive me when I say I'm just slightly dubious about accusations that all these protests against the project are really all the fault of Rauf and his supporters.
 
Thunder said:
please give us examples of anti-Mosque spokespeople who are not bigoted against Muslims and Islam. provide their reasons as well.
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I gave my reasons why I don't think it serves Muslims well, and that I don't like the possibility that the likes of Saudis will pay for it to any degree. I didn't say it should be forbidden.

But from what I hear from you, that makes me a bigot, so is the one example good enough for you?
 
ANTPogo said:
So I hope you'll forgive me when I say I'm just slightly dubious about accusations that all these protests against the project are really all the fault of Rauf and his supporters.
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I forgive you. I agree with you.

My point is that while the scope may be a surprise, they could have anticipated considerable opposition when they first started thinking of this, and worked to address that early on.
 
Bell said:
What :confused:
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More evidence no one is paying much attention to what GreNME and I have posted, and maybe only Cleon has noticed: This particular mosque/Islamic center was always intended to be a center for building bridges of peace. I'm going to keep posting this until more people notice. Links are in post 616.

From the NYTs DECEMBER 2009:
The location was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims who bought the building in July. A presence so close to the World Trade Center, “where a piece of the wreckage fell,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the cleric leading the project, “sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11.”

“We want to push back against the extremists,” added Imam Feisal, ...
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And
Dec. 21, 2009: Conservative media personality Laura Ingraham interviews Abdul Rauf's wife, Daisy Khan, while guest-hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" on Fox. In hindsight, the segment is remarkable for its cordiality. "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it," Ingraham says of the Cordoba project, adding at the end of the interview, "I like what you're trying to do."
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RANT! This whole sad sad episode once again has the Democrats being played the fool and falling hook line and sinker for a contrived right wing con led and fed by right wing bigots.

Look how easily the mob has been stirred to hatred. Here are some moderate Muslims who want to build bridges and instead now they've been set up by a couple of very loud bigoted right wing bloggers with the force behind them of Fox News and unethical politicians all too ready to use the event for personal political gain. Now instead of being a force for moderate Muslims, Fox and the bloggers are stirring up fear and loathing against those supposedly not to be trusted, probably terrorists, planning their next attack, evil Muslims. :(

What a friggin shame. At least some of the liberals get it, but many of them have fallen for the same right wing scam one more time. Good for you Pelosi, shame on you Reid and Dean.

And shame on all of you in this thread who fell for the right wing bigots leading the mob telling you to hate these people who are on our side. I know most of you won't want to consider you've been conned and will maintain your position that it really was your sentiment, that you get it because of the pain of people who lost folks on 911, that you weren't fooled into your position.

Did you know this center was meant to be a symbol AGAINST terrorism and extremists Muslims? A place of peace, a center AGAINST terrorism, think about it. If that offends people what are they thinking? That no Muslim can apologize for the worst among them? Do you care that the anti-Muslim fearmongering was initiated by a hate filled blogger? Were you aware that people in the area who heard about the center were in favor of it until the right wing bigoted campaign began?
Sigh....so friggin sad. And I'm supposedly the intolerant one because I support the banning the full face covering Hijab because I believe it sends a message against the cultural oppression of women.

-
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
And I'm supposedly the intolerant one because I support the banning the full face covering Hijab because I believe it sends a message against the cultural oppression of women.
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there is nothing bigoted about wanting a public ban on the Muslim face covering.
 
Kestrel said:
This firestorm of hate was generated by the same nutcase who suggested that Malcolm X was Obama's real father? :boggled:
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she is a hateful Jewish woman, who seems to think that by riling up Christian hatred against Muslims, somehow she will be more accepted.

she will fail. such deals with the devil always fail. and other Jews will pay for her stupidity.
 
Elind said:
My point is, partly, that opposition was to be expected and a few interviews saying the right words would never be enough to smooth that over.
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this opposition in many ways was manufactured, fueled, pumped, primed, and nursed by a very select few bigots...who truly hate Muslims.

i hate to think what their ultimate goal is.
 
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