Cont: Trump's Coup - Part 3

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Motives for the Trump Coup,

Now that the other Thread has pretty much confirmed it was a Coup,

What do you think the Motive was for the Coup?

I think Trump knows he committed obstruction in the Mueller investigation, and was worried he would be indicted for that Obstruction once William Barr was removed from being Attorney General.
That other Crimes and Conspiracy theories about the Elections prompted his trying to Seaze power though the Electoral Count act.

What are your thoughts please?

 

[BobTheCoward]

Now that the other Thread has pretty much confirmed it was a Coup,

What do you think the Motive was for the Coup?

I think Trump knows he committed obstruction in the Mueller investigation, and was worried he would be indicted for that Obstruction once William Barr was removed from being Attorney General.
That other Crimes and Conspiracy theories about the Elections prompted his trying to Seaze power though the Electoral Count act.

What are your thoughts please?

I think most of the people involved did not think any of their activity was illegal. I think the reason there was the dumb electors rather than getting a state legislature to send in a different set was the same reason for so much of the Trump administration....laziness, procrastination, and willful ignorance of government functions.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I think most of the people involved did not think any of their activity was illegal. I think the reason there was the dumb electors rather than getting a state legislature to send in a different set was the same reason for so much of the Trump administration....laziness, procrastination, and willful ignorance of government functions.

I think Trump was worried once he left the white house his Crimes would be totally exposed, to public view, so he was afraid of going to Prison.

The Motive clearly was fear the question is why?

 

[bruto]

I think most of the people involved did not think any of their activity was illegal. I think the reason there was the dumb electors rather than getting a state legislature to send in a different set was the same reason for so much of the Trump administration....laziness, procrastination, and willful ignorance of government functions.

You may be right, but I disagree. I think most of the people involved knew quite well that what the were doing was illegal. I mean, I think even stupid people realize that smashing through barricades and vandalizing the Capitol and threatening legislators is at least technically illegal. You'd have to be dumber than dirt not to realize this.

I would agree that most thought it was justified, and expected that, like the revolutionaries they imagined were their brethren, they'd be cheered for it. Those old revolutionaries, though, knew that they were committing crimes that would hang them if they failed. If the new ones did not, it's because they were conned by their leading idiots and their own ignorance into thinking their cause equivalent, and conned again by the same factors into thinking the idiot in charge would not forsake them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Dump has a pathologic narcissistic disorder. Everything he does revolves around that.

He likely truly couldn't accept that he lost even though he probably knew he did at some point. But he's claimed he didn't lose for so long, now he probably actually believes it.

As for fear of prosecution, that Mueller report is history. There are so many current things Dump can, and hopefully will be prosecuted for: tax fraud, insurrection (however Liz worded it), corruption of all sorts ... He was bilking taxpayers for 4 years, sometimes giving money to cronies, frequently giving money to the Kushners. We saw him trying to pal around with Putin, well he has done the same thing with the Kochs. A large amount of the PPP relief money went to those people, and mostly they have gotten out of paying it back.

CBS/MSN: Most Of The $800 Billion In PPP Loans Did Not Go To Workers, New Study Finds

Anyway, it's not hard to see why Dump wanted to stay in power and believed he could do so.

 

[BobTheCoward]

You may be right, but I disagree. I think most of the people involved knew quite well that what the were doing was illegal. I mean, I think even stupid people realize that smashing through barricades and vandalizing the Capitol and threatening legislators is at least technically illegal. You'd have to be dumber than dirt not to realize this.

I would agree that most thought it was justified, and expected that, like the revolutionaries they imagined were their brethren, they'd be cheered for it. Those old revolutionaries, though, knew that they were committing crimes that would hang them if they failed. If the new ones did not, it's because they were conned by their leading idiots and their own ignorance into thinking their cause equivalent, and conned again by the same factors into thinking the idiot in charge would not forsake them.

I thought this thread applied to white house members.

 

[Mojo]

You may be right, but I disagree. I think most of the people involved knew quite well that what the were doing was illegal. I mean, I think even stupid people realize that smashing through barricades and vandalizing the Capitol and threatening legislators is at least technically illegal. You'd have to be dumber than dirt not to realize this.

To paraphrase an earlier president, “when the president tells you to do it, that means that it is not illegal.”

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I thought this thread applied to white house members.

It does, there were infact two separate actions that day, Trump's political moves, and the idiot Ron Paul's Waco Whackos and Alex Jones conspiracy theorists, who resorted to violence, to try to accomplish political means.
Clearly having an anti Republic conspiracy theorist as leader of the Republican party was not a wise Idea.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Dump has a pathologic narcissistic disorder. Everything he does revolves around that.

He likely truly couldn't accept that he lost even though he probably knew he did at some point. But he's claimed he didn't lose for so long, now he probably actually believes it.

As for fear of prosecution, that Mueller report is history. There are so many current things Dump can, and hopefully will be prosecuted for: tax fraud, insurrection (however Liz worded it), corruption of all sorts ... He was bilking taxpayers for 4 years, sometimes giving money to cronies, frequently giving money to the Kushners. We saw him trying to pal around with Putin, well he has done the same thing with the Kochs. A large amount of the PPP relief money went to those people, and mostly they have gotten out of paying it back.

CBS/MSN: Most Of The $800 Billion In PPP Loans Did Not Go To Workers, New Study Finds

Anyway, it's not hard to see why Dump wanted to stay in power and believed he could do so.

There were several Crimes that Trump could have been prosecuted for, what he feared most was Biden's DOJ looking into what went on in the White House during his time in office as Mitch McConnell fears the State of Kentucky looking to closely at the Aluminum plant deal with the Russians.
You never know Duram might even uncover more evidence of Trump's Obstruction of the Mueller Probe, that might also be indictable.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Surely the most obvious answer is that Trump is certifiably insane and believes every stupid, insane word he utters.

 

[bruto]

I thought this thread applied to white house members.

I probably misread, if that's the case. I think they should have, because the apparent lie that the President is above the law ought not to be swallowed by people who are not idiots. But, since we're talking about this white house and these white house members, I regretfully concede the point.

 

[sackett]

The Republicans have preferred an easily manipulated (and easily corrupted) imbecile in the WH since the days of William McKinley. Many of their capi profited hugely by using Trumpf, the world's leading corrupt imbecile, as a can opener to get at public money. They also used his popularity with the lumpen class to strengthen their own positions and, I fear it must be said, to have nasty fun with all the kinds of people they just don't like. (Brutality is fun as long as you can be the brute.) Thus their enthusiasm for an attempt to bring down legal government. They didn't reckon on how infallibly Donald Trud fails at anything he attempts. I think that they also didn't understand his frozen cowardice: seizing a decisive moment is utterly beyond his nature.

 

[Paul2]

I don't mean this in a "Republic not a democracy har har har" way. The constitution is filled with anti democratic structures. Anti democracy seems very much in the spirit of the Constitution.

Because you weren't specific as to which measures in the Constitution you think are anti-democratic, it's a bit hard to reply, but the anti-democratic measures I see in the Constitution are largely in service of the dilution of power. The Senate is probably the most obvious anti-democratic measure, and it acts as a check on the populist nature of the House. Term limits serve as a check on corruption created through time in office. Etc.

I'm not seeing the larger purpose in the current Republican laws at the state levels about voting, and I"m not even talking so much about voter suppression (as bad as that is) as partisan control over the process of voting. The purpose I'm seeing in those Repub laws is retention of power, which is directly antithetical to the dilution of power that is the purpose of the anti-democratic parts of the Constitution.

 

[Lurch]

While a thorough examination would reveal as many motives as there were/are people involved, I think it boils down, in the simplest sense, to Drumpf desiring the Office of POTUS to keep out of jail, and his enablers profiting off of a useful idiot as POTUS.

The course of the GOP over the past several decades would seem to have been driving almost inexorably toward this outcome.

 

[bruto]

While a thorough examination would reveal as many motives as there were/are people involved, I think it boils down, in the simplest sense, to Drumpf desiring the Office of POTUS to keep out of jail, and his enablers profiting off of a useful idiot as POTUS.

The course of the GOP over the past several decades would seem to have been driving almost inexorably toward this outcome.

I was thinking about that a bit recently, and it seems the progression goes sort of like this:

Nixon....He's a crook and a liar, but at least he's sort of sane.

Reagan...he's demented, but at least he's kind of personable.

Bush Sr....he's not that personable, but at least he's not a total idiot.

Bush Jr...He's an idiot, but he's the kind of guy you could have a beer with.

Trump...skip the beer.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

While a thorough examination would reveal as many motives as there were/are people involved, I think it boils down, in the simplest sense, to Drumpf desiring the Office of POTUS to keep out of jail, and his enablers profiting off of a useful idiot as POTUS.

The course of the GOP over the past several decades would seem to have been driving almost inexorably toward this outcome.

You couldn't tell that from the crazy anti Republic Libertarians Constitutionalist conspiracy theorists taking over the Alt Right political fringe my family Started as Republicans, because we loved the Republic. Most modern Republicans want to trash it for their own monetary and political benefits.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Because you weren't specific as to which measures in the Constitution you think are anti-democratic, it's a bit hard to reply, but the anti-democratic measures I see in the Constitution are largely in service of the dilution of power. The Senate is probably the most obvious anti-democratic measure, and it acts as a check on the populist nature of the House. Term limits serve as a check on corruption created through time in office. Etc.

I'm not seeing the larger purpose in the current Republican laws at the state levels about voting, and I"m not even talking so much about voter suppression (as bad as that is) as partisan control over the process of voting. The purpose I'm seeing in those Repub laws is retention of power, which is directly antithetical to the dilution of power that is the purpose of the anti-democratic parts of the Constitution.

The obvious one is senators can be appointed by the state legislature.

 

[Stacyhs]

The obvious one is senators can be appointed by the state legislature.

.

I think the most undemocratic thing in the Constitution is the Electoral College.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

.

I think the most undemocratic thing in the Constitution is the Electoral College.

That and a multitude of other measures which give the minority a disproportionate amount of political representation.

 

[Stacyhs]

I thought this thread applied to white house members.

White House members?
white House members?