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Trump's Coup d'état.

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johnny karate said:
Yes. There seems to be this misapprehension that a coup needs to have long-term success to be a coup. It doesn’t.
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Or it has to be well planned and well organised or make any sense at all.

This group wanted to install Trump as President when he was not reelected, it’s a classic coup attempt.
 
johnny karate said:
Yes. There seems to be this misapprehension that a coup needs to have long-term success to be a coup. It doesn’t.
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You do understand that "replacement" can be a temporary thing, right?

The only one thinking that anyone thinks that "a coup needs to have long-term success to be a coup" is you. The requirement of a coup being a coup is that an illegitimate group take (seize) the power of a legitimate government, thus replacing them in the wielding of that power for a period of time. That period can be ten minutes or ten years, success is irrelevant, it is the intent to take that power from the Government through their actions that determines if a coup is a coup.

It's not violence, coups can be totally non-violent, it's not taking over the Government Buildings, coups can occur without taking over any building, and it's not making the Government go into protective lockdown, it is in the trying to replace those members and wield the powers of government for yourself. What we saw today was not that, it was a bunch of insurrectionists hanging out in the chamber for a few hours. They never tried to take the Government's power. They acted to shut down the Government and give voice to what they think is a serious issue. The terrorists did not seat their own congress and vote on the election certificates themselves trying to claim the power. They smashed things up and acted like a bunch of thugs. That's not a Coup, and never will be.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"There are armed rioters storming the Capitol, now is time for me to tone police the exact wording because that's what's important and make 'What?' face when people think I have an ulterior motive."

*Makes jack off motion*
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Thank you! Otherwise I was going to make a jack off motion.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back over to the OANN comment section where I don't have to deal with silly ivory tower bickering.
 
PhantomWolf said:
You do understand that "replacement" can be a temporary thing, right?

The only one thinking that anyone thinks that "a coup needs to have long-term success to be a coup" is you. The requirement of a coup being a coup is that an illegitimate group take (seize) the power of a legitimate government, thus replacing them in the wielding of that power for a period of time. That period can be ten minutes or ten years, success is irrelevant, it is the intent to take that power from the Government through their actions that determines if a coup is a coup.

It's not violence, coups can be totally non-violent, it's not taking over the Government Buildings, coups can occur without taking over any building, and it's not making the Government go into protective lockdown, it is in the trying to replace those members and wield the powers of government for yourself. What we saw today was not that, it was a bunch of insurrectionists hanging out in the chamber for a few hours. They never tried to take the Government's power. They acted to shut down the Government and give voice to what they think is a serious issue. The terrorists did not seat their own congress and vote on the election certificates themselves trying to claim the power. They smashed things up and acted like a bunch of thugs. That's not a Coup, and never will be.
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I highlighted the part that is incorrect and stopped reading after that. The definition of “coup” that you provided does not require that.
 
Darat said:
Or it has to be well planned and well organised or make any sense at all.

This group wanted to install Trump as President when he was not reelected, it’s a classic coup attempt.
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This isn't quite right.

The group believes that Trump is the legitimate President-Elect because he actually won the election and that if people were willing to listen to them and investigate then the corruption that flipped the election illegally to Bifen would be exposed and Trump would be declared the winner.

Of course, their beliefs are a lot of BS created and feed to them by the likes of Guliani and co through OAN and Beibreit, but just because those beliefs are a bunch of conspiracies and lies doesn't mean that they don't believe them wholeheartedly.

Getting people to investigate and install the "real" winner, is not trying to commit a coup. It might be a coup if they believed that Trump lost but still wanted to install him into power, and actually took actions that would directly further that.
 
PhantomWolf said:
This isn't quite right.

The group believes that Trump is the legitimate President-Elect because he actually won the election and that if people were willing to listen to them and investigate then the corruption that flipped the election illegally to Bifen would be exposed and Trump would be declared the winner.

Of course, their beliefs are a lot of BS created and feed to them by the likes of Guliani and co through OAN and Beibreit, but just because those beliefs are a bunch of conspiracies and lies doesn't mean that they don't believe them wholeheartedly.

Getting people to investigate and install the "real" winner, is not trying to commit a coup. It might be a coup if they believed that Trump lost but still wanted to install him into power, and actually took actions that would directly further that.
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Glad that you looked into their souls and found the pure motives lying within.

The only difference between you and me in our view of this is that you think this was a good faith move by these ****-wits.
 
[stops in, sees futile debate about coup or not coup has continued for pages]

But but, I must be believed!!!!

[steps back out of thread]
 
angrysoba said:
Glad that you looked into their souls and found the pure motives lying within.
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Actually, I think that they are fools that have been sucked into the vortex of an alternative world created by right-wing politicians and an even worse alt-right media.

The only difference between you and me in our view of this is that you think this was a good faith move by these ****-wits.
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Yes, I think they really believe the lies of Trump and co, just like I think that the 9/11 Hijackers believed that they were doing the right thing by their screwed up ideaology.

Just because someone has a warped and dangerous ideology that -you- can see is warped and dangerous, doesn't mean that those locked into that warped and dangerous ideology can see it the same way you do and that they don't genuinely believe that warped and dangerous ideology. In fact, that is what makes them so dangerous, as we have seen time and time again with terrorists of all kinds, including those today. When you believe a warped and dangerous ideology you are willing to take dangerous and warped actions to support it.

These people truly believe that Trump really won the election in a landslide victory and that millions of fraudulent votes have been created to steal that from victory him. In their minds, Trump is the legitimate President-Elect because he won and the Democrats then stole the election via fraud.

Yeah, they are dead wrong in their belief, but their belief in it is exactly what makes them very, very dangerous, just as we saw today, just as we saw on 9/11.
 
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