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Trump's Coup d'état.

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PhantomWolf said:
I swear, do you go out of your way to not understand things? It has zero to do with other coups, it has to do with the fact another poster claimed that it was a coup because these people wanted to install Trump as President when he lost the Election. I am pointed out that no, they are trying to keep Trump as president because they believe he won the election. It has zero to anyone believing that they are in right, it has to do with if they believe that Trump is the legitimate winner of the election.
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So yeah, if they sincerely believe (or can make you believe that they believe) that they are doing the right thing it's not a coup, it's just doing God's work.

I'm clear now.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
And their goal of halting the Powers of the Government from transferring those powers to the democratically elected President from their candidate, who they were convinced actually won? That's not a 'seizing'? Remember that failing in a goal does not mean the goal didn't exist.
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Only if you are trying to make the argument that they were trying to give the powers of the Legislative to the Executive.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Also the zip-ties they were carrying indicates a desire to capture and take into custody any congresscritter they found.
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Any? I would think someone had a list. I would think Mike Pence was on it.

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Probably only "a statement" but such things stay only a statement until they become more than that.
 
cosmicaug said:
So yeah, if they sincerely believe (or can make you believe that they believe) that they are doing the right thing it's not a coup, it's just doing God's work.

I'm clear now.
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That's a lot of straw for a skeptic's forum.
 
I see nothing in the literal translation of the term or the usage of it (I'm a fan of 19C European revolutions) to indicate seizure is necessary.

For pragmatic reasons (limbo is bad), having the new thing handy in your briefcase is a good idea.

But look at these goons. They don't protest. When they do, it is a police escorted parade. They don't plan street medics, aid supplies, crisis counselors, let alone a faux parliamentary session, just run around like children in a museum.

But a lot a coups, failed and successful, have had that.

The latter are the richest to study, quite honestly.

"We won!

...

Ooooooh ****."
 
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PhantomWolf said:
I swear, do you go out of your way to not understand things? It has zero to do with other coups, it has to do with the fact another poster claimed that it was a coup because these people wanted to install Trump as President when he lost the Election. I am pointed out that no, they are trying to keep Trump as president because they believe he won the election. It has zero to anyone believing that they are in right, it has to do with if they believe that Trump is the legitimate winner of the election.
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It doesn’t matter what they believe. We don’t need their agreement that this was a coup for it to be a coup. Their delusions have no bearing on the reality of their actions.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Preventing someone from using power is not seizing it. Seizing requires the taking possession of the thing being seized. Preventing the Government from being seated is not seizing their power in any form.
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Did Congress have the power to certify the election results while right wing terrorists were in control of the Capitol?
 
In other news, they are now voting on whether "to sustain the objection."

"No" means sanity.

But there are 47 more states (5 more may be objected to for 2 hours each).
 
johnny karate said:
Did Congress have the power to certify the election results while right wing terrorists were in control of the Capitol?
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Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
 
Delphic Oracle said:
In other news, they are now voting on whether "to sustain the objection."

"No" means sanity.

But there are 47 more states (5 more may be objected to for 2 hours each).
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They could in theory object to others. But this is a stunt. It's really more a question how much longer they want to continue with a stunt.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
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No, it's not required.
 
acbytesla said:
They could in theory object to others. But this is a stunt. It's really more a question how much longer they want to continue with a stunt.
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Yes, I did not mean to imply they are limited to 5 more, but those key states were what was telegraphed as their planned time.

Hawley seems ready to go at least one more.

ETA: still a massive question mark beyond that.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I see nothing in the literal translation of the term or the usage of it (I'm a fan of 19C European revolutions) to indicate seizure is necessary.
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Really?

here are a bunch of Dictionary usages.

- a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
- a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
- a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force
- a sudden and violent change in government
- the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group


But look at these goons. They don't protest. When they do, it is a police escorted parade. They don't plan street medics, aid supplies, crisis counselors, let alone a faux parliamentary session, just run around like children in a museum.

But a lot a coups, failed and successful, have had that.
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This is a bit like saying, "it has feathers so it must be a duck."
 
johnny karate said:
It doesn’t matter what they believe. We don’t need their agreement that this was a coup for it to be a coup. Their delusions have no bearing on the reality of their actions.
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It was a Coup attempt. An inept Coup Attempt, but an attempt none the less.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Yes, I did not mean to imply they are limited to 5 more, but those key states were what was telegraphed as their planned time.

Hawley seems ready to go at least one more.

ETA: still a massive question mark beyond that.
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I understood. And piss off Hawley.
 
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