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Trump's Coup d'état.

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PhantomWolf said:
This isn't quite right.

The group believes that Trump is the legitimate President-Elect because he actually won the election and that if people were willing to listen to them and investigate then the corruption that flipped the election illegally to Bifen would be exposed and Trump would be declared the winner.

Of course, their beliefs are a lot of BS created and feed to them by the likes of Guliani and co through OAN and Beibreit, but just because those beliefs are a bunch of conspiracies and lies doesn't mean that they don't believe them wholeheartedly.

Getting people to investigate and install the "real" winner, is not trying to commit a coup. It might be a coup if they believed that Trump lost but still wanted to install him into power, and actually took actions that would directly further that.
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Yeah, this is patently ridiculous. I’m pretty sure everyone who ever carried out a coup sincerely believe they were in the right. That doesn’t therefore make it not a coup.
 
Here's the thing. Trump has been attempting a coup since before the election. But as his former fixer has said when Trump wants his associates to break a law, he never tells them explicitly. He uses mob speak. This is no different.

Those morons that stormed the Capitol today weren't attempting a coup. Trump was inviting them to in some desperate hope that the chaos would keep him in power. Those idiots didn't have a clue what they were doing. And neither does Trump.
 
I've ingested about an hour back and forth between chambers.

Mitt Romney was blunt, forceful, and eloquent.
 
PhantomWolf said:
How can you seize the power of a government without becoming the new government?
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By taking control of the Capitol and preventing that government from exercising their power. For the several hours that right wing terrorists occupied the seat of the government after driving the government out, they took power away from the government.
 
johnny karate said:
Yeah, this is patently ridiculous. I’m pretty sure everyone who ever carried out a coup sincerely believe they were in the right. That doesn’t therefore make it not a coup.
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I swear, do you go out of your way to not understand things? It has zero to do with other coups, it has to do with the fact another poster claimed that it was a coup because these people wanted to install Trump as President when he lost the Election. I am pointed out that no, they are trying to keep Trump as president because they believe he won the election. It has zero to anyone believing that they are in right, it has to do with if they believe that Trump is the legitimate winner of the election.
 
PhantomWolf said:
How can you seize the power of a government without becoming the new government?
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There's a reason one of the most clearly laid out processes a government tries to get right is: succession/transfer of power.

A fumble at those moments allow any number of scenarios.

Anything is better than "limbo" which is what occupation of the seat of government means.

Sure, the body can meet in a bunker in Montana, but the occupation is a signal of intent to usurp, or at least depose.
 
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johnny karate said:
By taking control of the Capitol and preventing that government from exercising their power. For the several hours that right wing terrorists occupied the seat of the government after driving the government out, they took power away from the government.
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Preventing someone from using power is not seizing it. Seizing requires the taking possession of the thing being seized. Preventing the Government from being seated is not seizing their power in any form.

collins said:
seize (siz)

v. seized, seiz•ing. v.t.
1. to take hold of suddenly or forcibly; grasp: to seize a weapon.
2. to grasp mentally; understand clearly and completely: to seize an idea.
3. to take possession or control of as if by suddenly laying hold: Panic seized the crowd.
4. to take possession of by legal authority; confiscate.
5. to capture; take into custody.
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Driving the Government from a sitting session sure is 'taking hold of suddenly or forcibly', as well as mentally.... The riots seized the Capitol in a grip of terror.

Also the zip-ties they were carrying indicates a desire to capture and take into custody any congresscritter they found. Some items were also taken possession of, like that podium some nutter was pictured carrying.
 
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Silly Green Monkey said:
Driving the Government from a sitting session sure is 'taking hold of suddenly or forcibly', as well as mentally.... The riots seized the Capitol in a grip of terror.

Also the zip-ties they were carrying indicates a desire to capture and take into custody any congresscritter they found. Some items were also taken possession of, like that podium some nutter was pictured carrying.
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None of those things are the Powers of the Government.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Congress in session is absolutely a Power of the Government.
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Unless you plan to argue that the insurrectionist terrorists sat their own session of congress, then they didn't take possession of it, they suspended it.

This was an "act of open revolt against a constituted government" rather than an attempt "to seize the powers of a government." It was an insurrection, not a coup.
 
Hawley seems to be indicating he will "put his name on paper" again tonight.

That means another 2 hour debate.

Theoretically he may do it for the 6 battleground states.
 
And their goal of halting the Powers of the Government from transferring those powers to the democratically elected President from their candidate, who they were convinced actually won? That's not a 'seizing'? Remember that failing in a goal does not mean the goal didn't exist.
 
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