Trump might lose, but his movment will continue

[logger]

There are more evidences Bill is a sexual predator than Trump... He's cheater as well, but that's known of our business. He got impeached after the Lewinsky case.

But as I said, it's your choice. You can defend a coward that can't stad up to her own husband to win an election.

You won't get much traction with that here, and of course you are right. Most dems/liberals like to protect their political sexual predators. The evidence would be how far the loser Clintons have gotten. The left loves them because they love sexual predators.

 

[Meadmaker]

You won't get much traction with that here, and of course you are right. Most dems/liberals like to protect their political sexual predators. The evidence would be how far the loser Clintons have gotten. The left loves them because they love sexual predators.

I think the real answer is that we're pretty indifferent to sexual predation. If Trump's sexual predation were the only problem with Trump, he wouldn't have such a big problem.

As for Trump's "movement", I don't think there is any such thing. There's a conservative movement, and that will continue, but one of the biggest knocks against Trump from Republicans is that he wasn't conservative.

There's a "basked of deplorables" movement, that consists of genuine racists, or sexists, or homophobes, but it's hard to say how big that movement is because almost none of them admit that they really exist or are part of any such movement. I think there's a movement away from that.

So what's left? What is it about Trump that made him popular with such a big chunk of the American people? I think the answer is Trump himself, or, more accurately, the image of Trump. There were people who thought there was something special about this successful outsider that was going to turn Washington around.

What is happening now is that the façade is falling away. As we see evidence that he doesn't care about other people. We see his paranoia being revealed as he talks about "rigged" elections. We see his pathological need to strike back at anyone who attacks him. We see a man falling apart as he talks about lawsuits against newspapers, calls women liars and uses as proof that they are too ugly for him to want to assault, makes bizarre claims that his political rival is using performance enhancing drugs. These are not hallmarks of a sane man. So now, people have projected this aura of greatness on him, and they are seeing a very weak and insecure man once the aura is stripped away.

With Trump out of the way, perhaps a movement can coalesce around real principles of conservative values, but it will be difficult. Right now, the Republicans are dominated by people whose only values seem to be to use their power to attack their opponents with any charge they can. Rush's audience might go for it, but the general population has misgivings.

 

[Ray Brady]

Trump is qualified for office? I don't think so, but Hillary isn't as well, and that was my point.

Then your point is irrational. Hillary Clinton has served both in the Senate and as Secretary of State. She has more experience in how the federal government operates than any US President in my lifetime. If she isn't qualified, who is?

Trump, on the other hand, continually demonstrates that he does not understand how the US government works, what the role of the President is, or the contents of the US Constitution. Not only has he never held public office, he's never even held a job where he was accountable to others. When you add in his self-absorption, appalling personal behavior, history of corruption and inability to string a coherent sentence together, you come out with the very definition of a man who is unfit on any level to represent the American people.

But let's pretend you're right for a moment, and say that both candidates are equally unqualified. What is your proposed solution? The reality is that these are the candidates we have to choose from. I know what choice I'll be making. Do you have any suggestions as to how we can avoid the terrible mistakes you claim your country has made at this point?

 

[NoahFence]

There are more evidences Bill is a sexual predator than Trump... He's cheater as well, but that's known of our business. He got impeached after the Lewinsky case.

But as I said, it's your choice. You can defend a coward that can't stad up to her own husband to win an election.

You realize of course that Trump ADMITTED to being a sexual predator.


While he was sitting next to his daughter for good measure.

 

[Tero]

Look at Trump's speech: "you're all ********** up, because of the system. I know that, because I'm part of it. I'm the ones *********** you up."

Looks similar to Bernie Sanders speech, actually. They are all populists. Trump aims at the system, Hillary aims at Wall Street, but she gets money from Wall st. so people don't really believe her.

So, what people have against Trump? Those sexual abuses accusations, that we don't even know are true, are basically accusing Trump of being Hillary's husband, Bill Clinton.

He won't have time to be leader of the free world. What with the coke parties, golf, groping and not even mentioning his porn computer, China will take over! As well as Mexico, climbing over the chain link fence ("wall").

 

[fuelair]

Trump is qualified for office? I don't think so, but Hillary isn't as well, and that was my point. Criticising him for sexual assault is at the same time criticising her.

I'm not amarican, it's not my choice and I know that. But the whole world care about who will be America's next president.

I had a president exactly like herself for 6 years, before she got impeached. All the lies, all the pre-election scandals... all the same.

Hope you don't commit the same mistake as my country did. Good luck.

She has not sexually assaulted anyone. Her husband may have had sex with females not his wife, though the evidence says he just had consentual affairs which are not at all the same as sexual harassment as Trumpf is being called on.

 

[fuelair]

There are more evidences Bill is a sexual predator than Trump... He's cheater as well, but that's known of our business. He got impeached after the Lewinsky case.

But as I said, it's your choice. You can defend a coward that can't stad up to her own husband to win an election.

Definitely not doing well so far. Not a coward, rational.

 

[fuelair]

Also, you are wrong on the evidence part. Apparently where you are posting from has different standards for proof and/or evidence than we do in these parts of the world!!!

 

[Minoosh]

I'd dearly love for politicians on both sides of the R/D divide to have open, serious discussions on immigration reform, for example. But thanks to this ignorant, bloviating gasbag I don't see that as being possible for years to come.

I think this could go the other way. Many Republicans have withdrawn their support; Hillary is a pragmatist IMO; Trump's antics might actually spur something productive because he's shown the nastiness and futility of refusing any form of compromise.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump would probably want to be the kingmaker for the next "outsider" candidate in four years.
He will probably set up his own "Apprentice President" show.

 

[Craig4]

You won't get much traction with that here, and of course you are right. Most dems/liberals like to protect their political sexual predators. The evidence would be how far the loser Clintons have gotten. The left loves them because they love sexual predators.

Then how do you explain their hatred for Trump?

 

[MikeG]

......Most dems/liberals like to protect their political sexual predators........ The left loves them because they love sexual predators.

Well, that drivel tells me all I need to know.

 

[FenerFan]

I think this could go the other way. Many Republicans have withdrawn their support; Hillary is a pragmatist IMO; Trump's antics might actually spur something productive because he's shown the nastiness and futility of refusing any form of compromise.

That would be very nice, if it happens. I think it's possible if Trump really gets hammered in the election. Maybe more Republicans would feel comfortable working with Clinton as it wouldn't hurt them that much in the mid-terms.
I think the huge battle will be over the SCOTUS nominees, regardless of how badly Trump loses. The whole issue hasn't really been talked about too much lately because so many people are mesmerized by the incompetence of Trump's campaign. Those nominations are immensely important to Republican leaders. It's possible Clinton will get to nominate as many as four justices. I'm not sure, but that might be unprecedented. I think each one will be a battle royale.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The more she gets to nominate, the easier the job becomes, because it allows for horse-trading.
Ruth Ginsburg might step down so that Clinton gets to appoint one slightly liberal and one slightly conservative judge - in sum it would still be much better than Scalia.

 

[jimbob]

Look at Trump's speech: "you're all f... up, because of the system. I know that, because I'm part of it. I'm the ones f... you up."

Looks similar to Bernie Sanders speech, actually. They are all populists. Trump aims at the system, Hillary aims at Wall Street, but she gets money from Wall st. so people don't really believe her.
So, what people have against Trump? Those sexual abuses accusations, that we don't even know are true, are basically accusing Trump of being Hillary's husband, Bill Clinton.

From a different thread

From badscience, but again, Liverpoolmiss nails it.

Again, I'll let the autocensor do its work.

Subject: Indecision 2016

I don't know if this is quite what you are saying, but I saw a video of someone saying it should be impossible to vote for someone after they made the comments about grabbing a woman by the vagina. And I have to say I really disagree.

Imagine if this was Bill Clinton against Trump and it was Bill Clinton who had been caught on camera making the grabbing comment, but nonetheless he has the policy positions you'd expect, while Donald trump had run exactly the same campaign as he has but never made horrible sexist comments and wasn't caught on camera making that statement. Who do you vote for?

Or another example, imagine if the president can only act on issues to do with women's rights, including abortion (so triumph couldn't implement his ideas on foreign policy, immigration, security and couldn't introduce any anti-Muslims stuff) and you had to choose between Trump, having made these horrible remarks and demonstrated so many times that he is disgustingly sexist, and Pence. Pence may be a much nicer and more personable man to be around, but I think he would make much nastier legislation that would do a lot more damage to the lives of women. So would you choose him or trump?

I wouldn't say the character stuff is meaningless, especially not when it as extreme as it is with trump, but i think it is less of a problem than the actual hideous policies he has proposed and the kind of actions you can predict he will make if elected.

This post got lost a bit in the fun, but it's an interesting one. I think the following would explain why I'd vote for a sexual assaulter or a crook, if the alternative was someone who would be awful for the wider world.


My top 15 reasons not to vote for Trump:

1) Unstable thin-skinned bully as Commander in Chief and in charge of nuclear weapons


What, how could anyone need more? Well OK then, loads of reasons why he’d be devastating for the world as a whole:

2) Would surrender to Putin on anything and everything, from Ukraine to invasion of the Balts to sanctions, and has continually attacked Nato and America’s Nato allies

3) He would overturn the Paris climate treaty and actively try to wreck the US renewables industry while giving fossil fuel industries anything they want

4) Happy for nuclear proliferation to Saudi etc

5) Eager to start conflict with Iran, make war on Middle East countries to “take all their oil”, has his own childish fantasies about crushing ISIS while ignoring the advice of generals

6) Wants soldiers to commit war crimes, murder terrorists and their families, and torture non-terrorists because they probably deserve it anyway

7) Would wreck the US economy, and with it damage the rest of the world economy, causing poverty and death for unknown numbers in the US and elsewhere. Suggested the US should default on its debt.


Then a whole bunch of reasons why he’ll be a disaster for America:

8. Deportation force to round up immigrants, put them in custody and deport them

9) Direct racist who seeks support from white supremacists and the KKK, wants to discriminate against African Americans and Hispanic Americans, including new police powers, stop and frisk and capital punishment for alleged rapists if they are black, even if later found innocent. Plus a delightful sprinkling of anti-Semitism

10) Direct Islamophobe who wants special surveillance and registers of Muslims, plus random nonsense about banning Muslims entering the country

11) A proven sexist who wants to discriminate against women in the workplace, particularly pregnant women

12) Wants “power of veto” over the media, loosening of libel laws, generally attacks free speech

13) Has called for special prosecutor to override law and the FBI and lock up his political opponent, and generally is obsessed with revenge and wants to use state institutions to pursue personal vendettas. Admires dictators and loves to threaten/encourage violence at his rallies, including hinting that gun nuts should assassinate his opponent. Suggested American civilians could be tried by military commissions at Guantanamo. Wants his thugs to “monitor” polling booths in “certain communities” to ensure “they” don’t rig the election

14) Wants to appoint extreme right wingers to the Supreme Court, including going along with Republican anti-abortion policies

15) Continual liar who is addicted to conspiracy theories, making him dangerously unpredictable


So I’m sorry to say his sexual assaults on women, and his boasting about sexually assaulting women, doesn’t even make the top 15. That’s just damage to individuals, rather active damage to the entire world and destruction of the USA.


A bunch of further reasons that didn’t make my top 15 involving the damage he has done to individuals:

- Sexually assaults women
- Voyeurism against young women, including under 18s
- Attacked the Muslim parents of a dead solider
- Personally insults distinguished public servants, generals, etc
- Mocks veterans and POWs, mocks the disabled, mocks women for their personal appearance, uses racist insults, uses belittling insults


A bunch of reasons that show he’s nearer a fraudster than a successful businessman:

- Cheats on his taxes
- Uses his “charitable” foundation for personal benefit and lies about his charity donations
- Business failures and bankruptcies
- Lies about how much money he’s got and how much his father gave him
- Trump University fraud
- Cheats small businesses out of the money he owes them
- Actively sought illegal immigrants to employ
- Ties to mafia
- Lied about offering child care to his employees
- Financial links to Russia, Colonel Gadhafi, China


A bunch of reasons to do with him being a pathetic individual who’s basically a nasty little ****:

- Obsession with TV ratings, how much applause his speech gets, size of rallies, uses fake polls to claim he’s winning or won debates
- Boasted during a debate about the size of his penis
- Lied about 9/11 and boasted it made his building the tallest
- Congratulated himself over terrorist attacks and again after an African American was murdered
- False boasts about predicting Brexit
- Dodged the draft
- Used pseudonyms to pretend to be his own press spokesman
- When introducing his own running mate, just talked about himself
- Called avoiding STIs his own personal Vietnam
- Lied about opposing Iraq war
- Family and close supporters retweet and spread extreme rightwing memes, lies and abuse, while Trump himself refuses to disown and occasionally join in
- Chose as his first campaign chief someone who got arrested for grabbing a reporter, second had close links to Russia and Ukraine dictator, third makes anti-Semitic comments and has been accused of domestic abuse
- Talks bollocks about a fantasy wall that Mexico will pay for
- Talks bollocks about ISIS and how scary it is
- Urged hacking by Russia of Democrats emails
- Probably fixed his Florida Trump University lawsuit by bribing the state AG


Failing to make any list

- Said the word pussy


I hate to point out that the reason America seems to be rejecting him seem to be the wrong ones. I suspect the awful horrific lewd word “pussy” changed a lot of votes, for ****’s sake you uptight ***** with an obsession with swearing. Then stuff about sexual assault. Then stuff about his taxes.

Too few Americans seem to care about what he would mean for America, let alone the wider world.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I agree that Trump's movement will continue after he loses the election. He will not stop crapping all over the electoral process and America's dignity.

 

[newyorkguy]

I have read repeatedly, and believe, the United States, the world, has entered a period of great transition. It is creating great angst and anger. Trump is tapping into this. Based on the Trump supporters I know I think there are five issues really driving the Trump candidacy:

1. White Americans are expected to become a minority by 2045.
2. The emergence of gays as a demographic, as an accepted lifestyle, together with the legalization of same sex marriage.
3. The demise of the blue-collar economy, together with working/middle class wage stagnation and the concerted effort by corporate America to drive down wages and benefits.
4. The emergence of nations like China, Japan and India as growing economic powers.
5. The steady erosion in the ability of western nations to exert significant control over the political leadership in third world nations.

I've been listening to people rant about these things for forty years. Today they're Trump supporters. They're frustrated, angry and scared. Trump is a salesman who saw a way to tap into these fears and exploit them for political gain. As has been mentioned upthread, Hillary Clinton has rational plans to deal with our problems. But the average Trump supporter is usually too frustrated and angry to want rational planning. They want someone who rants and blusters.

And make no mistake, to many white Americans, sad to say, the fact a black man has served eight years as our President is seen as the beginning of the end. That control is slowly slipping out of the grasp of white America and Hillary Clinton doesn't seem to care. Only The Don gets it.

The reality is, the coalition of voters Trump has put together will continue to decline in numbers. The demographics and historical trends are undeniable. And compared to some of the emerging right wing groups in Europe Trump is fairly mild.

 

[trustbutverify]

You won't get much traction with that here, and of course you are right. Most dems/liberals like to protect their political sexual predators. The evidence would be how far the loser Clintons have gotten. The left loves them because they love sexual predators.

Does the right love sexual predators?

 

[Andy_Ross]

If you defeat him now, he shall*become more powerful*than you*can*possibly imagine.

 

[Meadmaker]

Trump would probably want to be the kingmaker for the next "outsider" candidate in four years.
He will probably set up his own "Apprentice President" show.

If he's sane, I think that's his plan right now. Double and triple down on the "red meat for the base" stuff, like asking for drug tests and babbling about rigged elections, knowing that it can't win the election, but will be the most likely to ensure continued loyalty among your followers, which you can use as influence.

Or, it might be that he's just nuts.