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Trump and NFL boycott

theprestige said:
That's the thing, though. These are cargo cult protests.
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That's the uncynical take. The cynical take is that it's just virtue signalling.

Of course, since there's lots of players engaging in these protests, it can easily be a mix of the two.
 
varwoche said:
Nope, either you don't know what the term means, and/or you're glibly denigrating the protesters.
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Sure, he's glibly denigrating the protesters. Doesn't mean he's wrong.

Seriously, what exactly do the protesters want people to do? There's no bloody way to tell from any of the protests what course of action we should take. What are their demands? Hell, do they even have any? And supposing they do, what's the imagined causal connection between the protests and the satisfaction of those demands?
 
d4m10n said:
The distinctive feature of cargo cults is a set of unwarranted beliefs about the power and beneficence of white people. Don’t see that in play here.
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Uh, no. That's not the distinctive feature of cargo cults, which frequently don't believe that the beneficence came from white people, but from the spirits of their own ancestors. They may even believe that white people have unfairly stolen these goods from the spirits.
 
Ziggurat said:
Uh, no. That's not the distinctive feature of cargo cults, which frequently don't believe that the beneficence came from white people, but from the spirits of their own ancestors. They may even believe that white people have unfairly stolen these goods from the spirits.
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Okay, I'll bite. Which of the core features of cargo cults did you theprestige mean to invoke in metaphor?
 
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Ziggurat said:
Sure, he's glibly denigrating the protesters. Doesn't mean he's wrong.
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Except that he is wrong.

Seriously, what exactly do the protesters want people to do? There's no bloody way to tell from any of the protests what course of action we should take. What are their demands? Hell, do they even have any? And supposing they do, what's the imagined causal connection between the protests and the satisfaction of those demands?
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These are legitimate questions, and I don't know the answer.

It can be worthwhile to draw attention to a problem, even lacking specific proposals to solve it. Clearly, Kaepernick's was protesting the treatment of black people by cops / justice system. But things got murky when Trump weighed in, because now there are various motivations at play, or so it seems.
 
d4m10n said:
Okay, I'll bite. Which of the core features of cargo cults did you theprestige mean to invoke in your metaphor?
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My guess is the whole engaging in a ritual which mimics the form but not the actual function of acts performed by others, in the vain hope of obtaining the result that function produced.

But I'm just guessing. My own interpretation of these protests was more cynical.
 
Ziggurat said:
My guess is the whole engaging in a ritual which mimics the form but not the actual function of acts performed by others, in the vain hope of obtaining the result that function produced.

But I'm just guessing. My own interpretation of these protests was more cynical.
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In this case, are the form/function the same though ?
 
Ziggurat said:
That's the uncynical take. The cynical take is that it's just virtue signalling.

Of course, since there's lots of players engaging in these protests, it can easily be a mix of the two.
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Virtue signalling: when someone takes a stand I don't like.

To be distinguished from acting on principle, which is taking a stand I like.
 
phiwum said:
Virtue signalling: when someone takes a stand I don't like.

To be distinguished from acting on principle, which is taking a stand I like.
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THIS.
The whole "Virtue signaling" charge is poisoning the well, pure and simple.
 
Cleon said:
Exactly.
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I think with every cause you will have some bandwagoners who will jump on because it is the trendy cool thing to do;such is human nature. But to use that as a total dismissal of an issue is pretty silly, particularly when you get angry when somebody apllies the term to somebody on your side.
 
dudalb said:
THIS.
The whole "Virtue signaling" charge is poisoning the well, pure and simple.
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In addition, it is a self-defeating accusation. The act of pointing out virtue signalling can just as easily be written off as virtue signalling itself.
 
phiwum said:
Virtue signalling: when someone takes a stand I don't like.

To be distinguished from acting on principle, which is taking a stand I like.
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Not at all. When antifa assaults someone for having the wrong views, that's not virtue signalling. They're putting their money where their mouth is. That's real action. I consider it evil action, but it's undoubtedly genuine.

Nice try, though.
 
The College Basketball Bribery scandal has sort of forced this story off the #1 spot on most sports pages, but will probably make a come back come Sunday.
 
Ziggurat said:
Not at all. When antifa assaults someone for having the wrong views, that's not virtue signalling. They're putting their money where their mouth is. That's real action. I consider it evil action, but it's undoubtedly genuine.

Nice try, though.
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Standing for the anthem: virtue signalling or simply abiding by social conventions?

Complaining about PC excesses: virtue signalling or expressing an opinion?

NRA stickers on your pickup truck: virtue signalling or expressing political support?

You use the term "virtue signalling" to dismiss others' expressions of political and moral opinions. It is dismissive and utterly biased in the way you use the term. Many folk express opinions without laying their lives or livelihoods on the line (and arguably, some of the kneelers are putting their money where their mouths are) and tain't a damn thing shameful or dubious about it.
 
Is this the thing that will start the end proceedings? Calling a black guy's Mama a "bitch"? Rep. Al Green will be making a motion to start impeachment proceedings next week.

Ain't nobody messin' with a Mama. (It was the only thing that prompted one recruit to talk back to a Marine Drill Instructor in Boot Camp oh, 40 years ago. He was quickly purged of that inference.)
 
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