Top Gear racist remark (again)

[angrysoba]

I wouldn't exactly say I am defending him. His humour is pathetically puerile and I can't stand to watch him on TV. But he is correct that he didn't use the n-word. He alluded to it and got a childish snigger out of not actually using it while alluding to it. If the rhyme was unknown, nobody would be able to decipher any words out of that mumbled line. He is relying on the fact that everyone knows what the line is meant to be, and that it is no longer acceptable to use it, to get a cheap laugh.

Unless the audio has been doctored, he is using it by any reasonable standard. He is clearly NOT using a well-known alternative such as "tiger" which was what I was told to use when I was a child. And it doesn't really matter that we have to be familiar with the rhyme to decipher what he is saying (or using) because much of our speech is indecipherable if taken in isolation and requires co-text to make it coherent.

 

[The Don]

I must be slightly younger than you lot (and Clarkson). By the time I was at school, the word was generally replaced by another. I seem to remember "fishy" being used and being confused as to how you could catch a fishy by the toe.

As a 47 year old I can confirm that the original was in use in County Durham in the late 1970's despite attempts to use tiger instead.

I never understood the tiger version, why would a tiger squeal ? Why wouldn't a tiger just maul anyone who attempted to grab its toe ? Even as a 10 year old, my experience with cats taught me it was complete bunk .

 

[angrysoba]

I must be slightly younger than you lot (and Clarkson). By the time I was at school, the word was generally replaced by another. I seem to remember "fishy" being used and being confused as to how you could catch a fishy by the toe.

Okay, let's say "fishy". Is there any way that the word could have been "fishy"?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Okay, let's say "fishy". Is there any way that the word could have been "fishy"?

Of course not. If he had been consciously replacing the word, there would have been no need for him to mutter. He kept the line as he learned it, but instead of articulating it clearly, he mumbled it because he knew it was unacceptable to say it. The only indication, other than the fact he felt the need to censor himself, that the word in question was "that word" is that you can just about hear an n-sound at the appropriate part of the phrase. I see it as no more than self-censoring/bleeping himself out because he knows that he can't say the rhyme in full.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Okay, let's say "fishy". Is there any way that the word could have been "fishy"?

Wiki also offers "tiger", "piggy", "tinker", "tigger", "chicken", "monkey", "baby", "spider", "teacher", or a two-syllable name.

But I don't think that's the point. I believe it is reasonable to assume that Clarkson is of the generation who only learned the n-variant as an infant, and the very fact that he did not say it is evidence enough for me that he was reciting a rhyme, part of which he could not say. So he didn't say that part.

The first line is entirely commonplace and people use it all the time. But they rarely go beyond that, whichever version they know. So it's not unreasonable to think there is an entire older generation who are unaware there are other variations on the rhyme (as I was till my friend came out with one as I mentioned above).

 

[angrysoba]

Of course not. If he had been consciously replacing the word, there would have been no need for him to mutter. He kept the line as he learned it, but instead of articulating it clearly, he mumbled it because he knew it was unacceptable to say it. The only indication, other than the fact he felt the need to censor himself, that the word in question was "that word" is that you can just about hear an n-sound at the appropriate part of the phrase. I see it as no more than self-censoring/bleeping himself out because he knows that he can't say the rhyme in full.

Wiki also offers "tiger", "piggy", "tinker", "tigger", "chicken", "monkey", "baby", "spider", "teacher", or a two-syllable name.

But I don't think that's the point. I believe it is reasonable to assume that Clarkson is of the generation who only learned the n-variant as an infant, and the very fact that he did not say it is evidence enough for me that he was reciting a rhyme, part of which he could not say. So he didn't say that part.
The first line is entirely commonplace and people use it all the time. But they rarely go beyond that, whichever version they know.

So both of you clearly recognize the word by the sounds coming out of his mouth and yet, not only did he not say the word, he did not use the word. I find that interesting. In fact, I am sorry to say I think this is a clear example of cognitive dissonance where each of you is tying yourself in knots to deny the fact he blatantly used a word which you all know he used.

Why you would do that, I don't know.

And as for the idea that this is "just a newspaper trying to give the "slope" story fresh legs" I still don't see what is defensible about using the racial epithet "slope" in the first place. Arguments that poor old Clarkson didn't know "slope" was racist or didn't know any better than by getting half way through Eeny Meany without knowing a sanitized alternative sound like simply making up excuses. Clarkson's not that sheltered that he's too ignorant to know better.

As a thought experiment, imagine that video came to light in which Nigel Farage was trying to work out who could be the next councillor to replace the last staff member dismissed for racism, and Farage used the same line with the same knowing mumbling of the n-word, would you be making these tenuous arguments?

I submit you would not, but I could be wrong.

 

[Agatha]

I am a little older than The Don (I was born in 1963), and the n-word is the version I learned and used as a child, even in multicultural norf London. Substitutes like tiger and fishy weren't taught to us or ever really mentioned as a possibility. I find it embarrassing and shameful now that we did use that word at that time, but then it was just part of the rhyme.

Clarkson was born in 1960 in less culturally diverse Doncaster, so is even less likely to have been taught a substitute word. He's mumbling his way through the rhyme as if he was using asterisks - he knows IMO it's not acceptable to use the word but that's the counting out rhyme with which he grew up.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So both of you clearly recognize the word by the sounds coming out of his mouth...

No. That is pretty much the antithesis of what I said.

Out of context from the lines preceeding and following, the hmmm mmm mmm sounds Clarkson made were entirely incomprehensible.

Only in context can we presume to know the words he avoided articulating.

 

[Agatha]

I've re-listened to the audio and it sounds to me like Clarkson is saying "ha(sh) a neeer my hi toe" - deliberately mumbling the actual line of the rhyme to avoid saying the n-word. He clearly doesn't think 'catch' or 'by' or 'his' are offensive words, yet he deliberately mumbles/mispronounces those as well.

Should he have used one of the newer variant words or use a different counting out rhyme? Yes, but that may be why that piece of footage wasn't broadcast.

I don't think Clarkson is racist himself but I do think he makes a point out of being laddish, offensive to a point, and playing a character.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

And as for the idea that this is "just a newspaper trying to give the "slope" story fresh legs" I still don't see what is defensible about using the racial epithet "slope" in the first place.

Nor do I. I cringed when I heard him say it.

 

[Tolls]

So both of you clearly recognize the word by the sounds coming out of his mouth...

No, they recognise the word by knowing the rhyme, and realising that the only reason for mumbling and not saying a word at that point is if the word being skipped was the word in question.

And yes, there is a difference between Farage and Clarkson.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Clarkson has released a short video statement

 

[Lisa Simpson]

"Ordinarily I don't respond to newspaper allegations but on this occasion I feel I must make an exception. A couple of years ago I recorded an item for Top Gear in which I quote the rhyme "eeny, meeny, miny, moe". Of course, I was well aware that in the best-known version of this rhyme there is a racist expression that I was extremely keen to avoid. The full rushes show that I did three takes. In two, I mumbled where the offensive word would normally occur and in the third I replaced it altogether with the word teacher. Now when I viewed this footage several weeks later I realised that in one of the mumbled versions if you listen very carefully with the sound turned right up it did appear that I'd actually used the word I was trying to obscure. I was mortified by this, horrified. It is a word I loathe and I did everything in my power to make sure that that version did not appear in the programme that was transmitted.

"I have here the note that was sent at the time to the production office and it says: 'I didn't use the N-word here but I've just listened through my headphones and it sounds like I did. Is there another take that we could use?'

"Please be assured I did everything in my power to not use that word, as I'm sitting here begging your forgiveness for the fact my efforts obviously weren't quite good enough, thank you."

I'm so shocked.

ETA: He did everything in his power, EXCEPT not saying it in the first place.

 

[LondonJohn]

As a 47 year old I can confirm that the original was in use in County Durham in the late 1970's despite attempts to use tiger instead.

I never understood the tiger version, why would a tiger squeal ? Why wouldn't a tiger just maul anyone who attempted to grab its toe ? Even as a 10 year old, my experience with cats taught me it was complete bunk .

And, by contrast, you could rationalise "catch(ing) a (man/boy of black African ethnicity) by the toe"......?

And, just to continue the theme to its logical conclusion, why would a man/boy of black African ethnicity "squeal" if you caught him by the toe? Wouldn't he just kick you in the face with his free foot? And why would you elect to try to catch him "by the toe" anyhow? Why not grab his ankle?

 

[LondonJohn]

I'm so shocked.

What an odious little man.

I was going to add that another (as yet unmentioned here) factor was that apparently this scene was refilmed for transmission, with Clarkson clearly (apparently) substituting another word ("teacher" IIRC) in the "mumbled" section. This in and of itself would appear to be significant evidence that the original take contained an offensive word (and that Clarkson and/or the director/producer recognised it as such).

What makes it all the worse for me are the bogus (and, frankly, rather disgusting) attempts by Clarkson and others to claim that this is all something of a storm in a teacup, because "I'm clearly not a racist" etc etc. This is to fail to realise that there are two forms of racism: one is an active visceral discrimination against certain ethnic groups (and that's not the type we're talking about here, and I don't think Clarkson falls into this group). The other is a pernicious yet casual poisoning of attitudes towards people of certain ethnicities. And there's no doubt in my mind that Clarkson is a racist under this second definition.

It's a bit like a man making disgusting misogynistic and chauvinistic jokes about women and then saying "but it's all OK cos I'm married to a lovely woman whom I love".

And, by the way, if that James May quote is accurate, then he needs to take a very hard look at himself too. Moron.

 

[jaydeehess]

Canadian and yes, I've heard the term.

 

[LondonJohn]

I am a little older than The Don (I was born in 1963), and the n-word is the version I learned and used as a child, even in multicultural norf London. Substitutes like tiger and fishy weren't taught to us or ever really mentioned as a possibility. I find it embarrassing and shameful now that we did use that word at that time, but then it was just part of the rhyme.

Clarkson was born in 1960 in less culturally diverse Doncaster, so is even less likely to have been taught a substitute word. He's mumbling his way through the rhyme as if he was using asterisks - he knows IMO it's not acceptable to use the word but that's the counting out rhyme with which he grew up.

That doesn't wash one little bit with me.

Clarkson is a grown man. He's also a broadcast (and print*) journalist, and thus has additional responsibilities and obligations to use language carefully and appropriately.

It's my absolutely firm opinion that what Clarkson was doing in that film item was the following: he was attempting to slip in a "hilarious" piece of casual racism into the item by disguising it within the "by rote" mumbled section of a nursery rhyme. I am entirely convinced that he knew exactly what he was doing. Part of my certainty is based on the fact that there were alternate takes with a different word "mumbled". I think they watched the rushes and realised that the racial slur was just too recognisable in the first take. I think they did a second take in which Clarkson attempted to say the word again, but less recognisably. I think that this also failed, and that they resorted to a take 3, in which Clarkson resorted to using a different word ("teacher") altogether.


Incidentally, Agatha Christie wrote a murder mystery that was originally titled "Ten Little N-words". When I read it at school it had already been retitled "Ten Little Indians", and since then it's been completely retitled as "And Then There Were None". It would be equally reprehensible for a broadcast journalist to refer to the book by its original title (unless it were in the specific context of a discussion related to the title and the racial slurs). Saying something like "Oh it was the title of the book I remember my Grandmother reading to me" just wouldn't wash. Just as anyone trying to excuse Clarkson by saying "Oh he was just reflexively repeating the words he had learned as a child in Doncaster" is utterly missing the point and/or being disingenuous.



* I say "print journalist", but have you read some of the stuff he puts out under his name......?

 

[LondonJohn]

So both of you clearly recognize the word by the sounds coming out of his mouth and yet, not only did he not say the word, he did not use the word. I find that interesting. In fact, I am sorry to say I think this is a clear example of cognitive dissonance where each of you is tying yourself in knots to deny the fact he blatantly used a word which you all know he used.

Why you would do that, I don't know.

And as for the idea that this is "just a newspaper trying to give the "slope" story fresh legs" I still don't see what is defensible about using the racial epithet "slope" in the first place. Arguments that poor old Clarkson didn't know "slope" was racist or didn't know any better than by getting half way through Eeny Meany without knowing a sanitized alternative sound like simply making up excuses. Clarkson's not that sheltered that he's too ignorant to know better.

I agree entirely with your point of view. And regarding the last paragraph above, I think it's already entirely clear that Clarkson himself knew exactly what he was saying and the connotations ascribed to the words he used - in both the "slope" incident and the "n-word" incident. He (and his producer) have already essentially admitted as such, while at the same time trying horribly to excuse it all as nothing more than "light-hearted fun" and "no offence intended" and so on and so on.

What will be very interesting now will be the BBC's approach. Top Gear is made in-house by the BBC's own production unit, so the BBC has a dual responsibility here as programme-maker and broadcaster. I am betting that the BBC will issue a statement showing disapproval of Clarkson's comments and attitudes, and pledging (in a suitably anodyne and non-specific way, of course) to work harder to avoid these sorts of things happening in future. I suspect also that they will announce that they are sending Clarkson and Wilman on diversity training courses, and warning them about their future conduct. Let's see how close I am to what actually happens........

 

[zooterkin]

It's my absolutely firm opinion that what Clarkson was doing in that film item was the following: he was attempting to slip in a "hilarious" piece of casual racism into the item

Why? What's the evidence for that, rather than the more obvious, to me, anyway, suggestion that he was simply illustrating that there was nothing to choose between the two cars by saying that the only way to pick one of them was by using a children's rhyme?

Incidentally, Agatha Christie wrote a murder mystery that was originally titled "Ten Little N-words". When I read it at school it had already been retitled "Ten Little Indians", and since then it's been completely retitled as "And Then There Were None". It would be equally reprehensible for a broadcast journalist to refer to the book by its original title (unless it were in the specific context of a discussion related to the title and the racial slurs). Saying something like "Oh it was the title of the book I remember my Grandmother reading to me" just wouldn't wash. Just as anyone trying to excuse Clarkson by saying "Oh he was just reflexively repeating the words he had learned as a child in Doncaster" is utterly missing the point and/or being disingenuous.

You might have a point if he had said the word. The point is, he didn't say it. Furthermore, they didn't broadcast the take where it sounds a bit like he did (we're getting into pareidolia territory with that, I think).

 

[angrysoba]

No. That is pretty much the antithesis of what I said.

Out of context from the lines preceeding and following, the hmmm mmm mmm sounds Clarkson made were entirely incomprehensible.

Only in context can we presume to know the words he avoided articulating.

Yet you know what the word was and what the word couldn't be. You know the word - which he didn't use! - was not tiger or teacher or fishy but definitely the n-word; nobody disputes that!

But I like the novel defence:

"His words were taken out of put in context!"