Top Gear racist remark (again)

[angrysoba]

He may have said ****** now.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/01/jeremy-clarkson-not-use-n-word

Edited by zooterkin: 

Edited for rule 10.

You can make up your own mind here.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Well, I wouldn't trust the "expert", anyway:

"When audio clips are joined an audible click can be heard, this also seen as a spike in the wave."

This "expert" has apparently never heard of zero crossing or crossfading.

There are three possibilities I can see. 1, she's incompetent, and so her testimony can be disregarded. 2, she knows that what she's said is untrue and said it because it's what the paper wanted her to say, and so her testimony can be disregarded. 3, she didn't say what she is quoted as saying but the paper altered or truncated her quote to make it seem as if it is damning where it isn't, and so her testimony as reported can be disregarded.

 

[fagin]

Being a bit old, I remember when that was used all the time to decide between things - I still think it when I have to choose.
Sometimes things get a bit silly.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I don't know what he's saying, but it's not the n-word.

Source: I'm from south-east Texas, I know what the n-word spoken by a white man sounds like.

 

[zooterkin]

Being a bit old, I remember when that was used all the time to decide between things - I still think it when I have to choose.
Sometimes things get a bit silly.

Indeed. I'm almost exactly the same age as Clarkson, and we used that rhyme in the playground at school for choosing teams and other things without a second thought (and no adult would have turned a hair at the time, either). Times change.

Having listened to the clip, and assuming no editing, I'd say that the words he is mumbling are what the Mirror claims. However, he is mumbling them, he's not saying them clearly; he's acknowledging that it is not OK to use those words now. He's using the choosing rhyme from when he was a child, to make a point. It happens that some of the words are no longer acceptable, so he's not saying them.

 

[angrysoba]

Indeed. I'm almost exactly the same age as Clarkson, and we used that rhyme in the playground at school for choosing teams and other things without a second thought (and no adult would have turned a hair at the time, either). Times change.

Having listened to the clip, and assuming no editing, I'd say that the words he is mumbling are what the Mirror claims. However, he is mumbling them, he's not saying them clearly; he's acknowledging that it is not OK to use those words now. He's using the choosing rhyme from when he was a child, to make a point. It happens that some of the words are no longer acceptable, so he's not saying them.

Eh? He is mumbling them but not saying them?

Clarkson denies saying the word:

The BBC on Thursday launched an urgent investigation into the allegations, while Clarkson denied he used the word. He told his 3.2 million Twitter followers: "I did not use the n-word. Never use it. The Mirror has gone way too far this time."

 

[angrysoba]

How come Clarkson didn't make some jaunty PC-skewering riposte like he did when accused of using the term "slope" in a racist manner? To wit,

Clarkson later used his Twitter account to respond to the allegation, and said: 'I'm not a racist. I am currently sitting in a bar with a man who lives quite near Wales.'

 

[zooterkin]

Eh? He is mumbling them but not saying them?

Well, what word would you use instead of 'mumble'? He's clearly making a noise. He is not speaking clearly, so it's not possible to be sure exactly what word he is using, however, to anyone familiar with the children's counting rhyme, the sound and intonation matches the words in common usage in the 1960s. You could say he is referencing the words without actually saying them. It's a bit like using asterisks on this site; you may know from the context what they stand for, but is that the same as the person actually using the word?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Well, what word would you use instead of 'mumble'? He's clearly making a noise. He is not speaking clearly, so it's not possible to be sure exactly what word he is using, however, to anyone familiar with the children's counting rhyme, the sound and intonation matches the words in common usage in the 1960s. You could say he is referencing the words without actually saying them. It's a bit like using asterisks on this site; you may know from the context what they stand for, but is that the same as the person actually using the word?

I wondered that myself. To me, it sounds like he's saying it without saying it so he has some plausible deniability.

 

[angrysoba]

Well, what word would you use instead of 'mumble'? He's clearly making a noise. He is not speaking clearly, so it's not possible to be sure exactly what word he is using, however, to anyone familiar with the children's counting rhyme, the sound and intonation matches the words in common usage in the 1960s. You could say he is referencing the words without actually saying them. It's a bit like using asterisks on this site; you may know from the context what they stand for, but is that the same as the person actually using the word?

Yes.

I wondered that myself. To me, it sounds like he's saying it without saying it so he has some plausible deniability.

So he is saying the word.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

To me, he was doing the equivalent of saying:
"Eenie meenie minie mo
If I actually said the next line of the rhyme I would be in sooooooo much trouble
Eenie meenie minie mo"

Ie not actually saying it, but getting a snigger out of not saying it at the same time.

 

[angrysoba]

To me, he was doing the equivalent of saying:
"Eenie meenie minie mo
If I actually said the next line of the rhyme I would be in sooooooo much trouble
Eenie meenie minie mo"

Ie not actually saying it, but getting a snigger out of not saying it at the same time.

Then why did he deny it and say the Mirror had "gone too far"?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Then why did he deny it and say the Mirror had "gone too far"?

Erm because he didn't actually say it?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Then why did he deny it and say the Mirror had "gone too far"?

Because he muttered it enough for plausible deniability.

 

[zooterkin]

Yes.

Ok, but if you use the word (there are ways of doing so) in sub-forums where it is banned, you can get into trouble. You don't if you use asterisks. This site, at least, treats the two cases differently, even if it's clear what word was intended.

 

[angrysoba]

I'd say that the words he is mumbling are what the Mirror claims. However, he is mumbling them, he's not saying them clearly; he's acknowledging that it is not OK to use those words now. He's using the choosing rhyme from when he was a child, to make a point. It happens that some of the words are no longer acceptable, so he's not saying them.

Well, what word would you use instead of 'mumble'? He's clearly making a noise. He is not speaking clearly, so it's not possible to be sure exactly what word he is using, however, to anyone familiar with the children's counting rhyme, the sound and intonation matches the words in common usage in the 1960s. You could say he is referencing the words without actually saying them. It's a bit like using asterisks on this site; you may know from the context what they stand for, but is that the same as the person actually using the word?

I wondered that myself. To me, it sounds like he's saying it without saying it so he has some plausible deniability.

To me, he was doing the equivalent of saying:"Eenie meenie minie mo
If I actually said the next line of the rhyme I would be in sooooooo much trouble
Eenie meenie minie mo"

Ie not actually saying it, but getting a snigger out of not saying it at the same time.

Erm because he didn't actually say it?

Because he muttered it enough for plausible deniability.

The claim is that he "used" or "mumbled" the word. It seems everyone here agrees with that. Yet Clarkson is disputing that he "used" the word. Surely, by saying, or mumbling the word, which zooterkin and Lisa say he did, he used the word. By saying he didn't say the word but got a "snigger" out of it, he used the word.

The Mirror claimed he "used" the word. And "mumbled" the word under his breath.

I'll quote the bits from the Mirror article:

Watch Jeremy Clarkson use n-word in unseen Top Gear footage

While filming for the BBC, Clarkson can be heard chanting: “Eeny, meeny, miny, moe...” He then mumbles: “Catch a ****** by his toe”

Edited by zooterkin: 

Edited for rule 10

So the Mirror claims he "used" the word. This is specifically what Clarkson has denied and which two of you defending Clarkson have nonetheless agreed he did.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I wouldn't exactly say I am defending him. His humour is pathetically puerile and I can't stand to watch him on TV. But he is correct that he didn't use the n-word. He alluded to it and got a childish snigger out of not actually using it while alluding to it. If the rhyme was unknown, nobody would be able to decipher any words out of that mumbled line. He is relying on the fact that everyone knows what the line is meant to be, and that it is no longer acceptable to use it, to get a cheap laugh.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Indeed. I'm almost exactly the same age as Clarkson, and we used that rhyme in the playground at school for choosing teams and other things without a second thought (and no adult would have turned a hair at the time, either). Times change.

Having listened to the clip, and assuming no editing, I'd say that the words he is mumbling are what the Mirror claims. However, he is mumbling them, he's not saying them clearly; he's acknowledging that it is not OK to use those words now. He's using the choosing rhyme from when he was a child, to make a point. It happens that some of the words are no longer acceptable, so he's not saying them.

Here's what Wiki makes of the rhyme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe

We used it all the time as children just as you say, without a second thought, and I had only ever heard one version of the rhyme. Year went by and people still used the first line to jokingly indicate they couldn't choose, but nobody went beyond that first line and you rather forgot about the n-bomb in the next line.

But one day a friend went through the whole thing. As she launched into the second line I was frozen in horror. My friend is black. What was she about to say? "Catch a matcher by the toe" is what came out. Relief. Who knew there were other variations?

So Clarkson was using the same Eenie Meenie rhyme that kids learned for generations, and he knows it as that version, so he tum-te-tum'd through the second line because it's something you simply do not say any more.

In essence this is just a newspaper trying to give the "slope" story fresh legs and I think they've got it entirely wrong.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I must be slightly younger than you lot (and Clarkson). By the time I was at school, the word was generally replaced by another. I seem to remember "fishy" being used and being confused as to how you could catch a fishy by the toe.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

...the Mirror claims he "used" the word. This is specifically what Clarkson has denied and which two of you defending Clarkson have nonetheless agreed he did.

Well I don't agree that he did mutter the words. He muttered all right, but he didn't form any particular words at all, he just made vague mumbling sounds.