Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

[Steve]

Also, are you all still arguing about how many dead bodies on the floor it takes to give it a particular label?

Yes.

 

[Hercules56]

Yes,it's a way to avoid actually dealing with the reasons underlying the exeptional USAian homicide rate, i.e. lack of proper healthcare access, a culture that glorifies violence, massive powerty and economic inequality, et cetera.

So now we're just talking about homicides in general?

 

[Nessie]

A mass shooting is where someone fires four or bullets in one single incident.

There are grades of mass shooting, from where none of the bullets hit anything of significance, there is damage to property, there are close misses of people, people are injured, people are killed.

The reasons why people mass shoot are anger at someone (individual, work place, school etc), gangs, violent incidents and no one who would go out and shoot like that, should be allowed to have a gun.

Even with that definition of mass shooting, mass shootings are very rare in the UK and any such incident would result in the arrest of the person involved, if they had a licence of the gun, they would lose it permanently, they would likely go to prison and there would be an enquiry as to how they got the gun, or the licence, with a view to improving existing gun control.

If that definition was applied in the USA, it would result in a true picture of how common shootings are and how much US gun control has failed. Americans don't want to face up to that.

 

[Hercules56]

A mass shooting is where someone fires four or bullets in one single incident.....

Jesus H Christ, I'm not sure its possible for us to water down the definition of "mass-shooting" any further.

Great job guys, real team effort.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Who said anything about mass murderers?

This thread is about mass shootings. Get with the program.

Anytime you want to prove me wrong, that blacks commit most mass shootings, pick a day to start and we can do any 10 mass shootings in a row.

How about this, we've got a pretty decent start on identity of shooters of the 4 days going through to the end of the weekend on the post-Maine mass shooting, we can start their.

How about it? You game? Going to put your money where your mask is?

Still mad that the rest of us are not counting the legions of black mass murderers that exist only inside your own head I see.

Lad, if you're going to continue to make up nonsense to prop up your racist beliefs, I'm going to pull you up on it, until I get bored at least. If you don't want it to continue, stop posting nonsense here.

 

[Hercules56]

I have a great idea!!! Let's all just follow the original definition of "mass-shooting", before political agendas and racist ideologies screwed everything up.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

The USA has a lower murder rate than:

Jamaica
U.S. Virgin Islands
South Africa 
Saint Lucia *
Honduras *
Lesotho *
Belize *
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Saint Kitts and Nevis *
Trinidad and Tobago *
Bahamas Americas
Saint Martin
Myanmar *
Anguilla
Mexico *
Colombia *
Brazil *
Nigeria *
Guatemala *
Venezuela *
El Salvador *
Antigua and Barbuda Americas
Curaçao
Saint Pierre
Guyana *
Iraq.
Eritrea
South Sudan
Ecuador 
Dominica
French Guiana
Haiti *
Eswatini
Panama *
Namibia *
Barbados
Costa Rica *
Palau
Nicaragua
Bermuda
Botswana
Dominican Republic 
Iraq
Papua New Guinea 
Uruguay
Ethiopia *
Uganda
British Virgin Islands
Paraguay *
Kiribati
Russia *



and a much higher gun ownership rate than ALL of them.

When you eliminate the tiny states (for which statistics aren't comparable) and failed states (most of said failures caused by the US), you're looking at a bunch of mostly dictatorships whose murder rates aren't much higher that the US's.

Glad to see you're proud your country's comparable to Russia.

 

[Hercules56]

When you eliminate the tiny states (for which statistics aren't comparable) and failed states (most of said failures caused by the US), you're looking at a bunch of mostly dictatorships whose murder rates aren't much higher that the US's.

Glad to see you're proud your country's comparable to Russia.

Its a modern large European state, clearly not a failed one. They have strong gun laws.

 

[Bogative]

Still mad that the rest of us are not counting the legions of black mass murderers that exist only inside your own head I see.

Anytime you want to prove me wrong, that blacks commit most mass shootings, pick a day to start and we can do any 10 mass shootings in a row.

How about this, we've got a pretty decent start on identity of shooters of the 4 days going through to the end of the weekend on the post-Maine mass shooting, we can start there.

How about it? You game? Going to put your money where your mask is?

I'll take that as a no, then. Since I knew you would have no interest in proving your own delusions wrong, I took it upon myself to start compiling the known shooters for the 4 days after the Maine shooting.

Anyone else want to join in? Several on this board have accused me of ignoring certain types of shooters to skew the numbers, here's your chance to back up those claims.

18 mass shootings.
2 Latino males.
7 black males.




October 26 – Clinton, North Carolina – 5 killed – Drug-related

October 27 – Mansfield, Ohio – 2 killed, 4 wounded – House party

October 27 – Little Rock, Arkansas – 1 killed, 4 wounded – Gas station parking lot

October 28 – Chicago, Illinois – 4 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Texarkana, Texas – 3 killed, 3 wounded
2 black males – Breoskii Warren & Devon Hayden
https://txktoday.com/crime/two-arrested-in-shooting-that-left-three-dead/

October 28 – Chula Vista, California – 4 wounded
Black male –
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...arge/509-c6ca7eb2-ae7f-454a-a8f4-014095f3f545

October 28 – Decatur, Georgia – 4 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Cumberland, Maryland – 1 killed, 3 wounded – Outside of club

October 28 – Las Cruces, New Mexico – 7 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Lake Charles, Louisiana – 6 wounded
Black male – Artavien Green
https://www.kalb.com/2023/10/30/suspect-apprehended-bruce-drive-shooting/

October 29 – Azusa, California – 4 wounded – House party

October 29 – Chicago, Illinois – 15 wounded
Black male – William A Groves
https://cwbchicago.com/2023/10/chic...hooting-wiliam-groves-charged-background.html

October 29 – Wiggins, Mississippi – 1 killed, 3 wounded
Black male – Montrell Malik Quinn II
https://www.wdam.com/2023/11/02/sus...n-deadly-weekend-shooting-195-fruitland-park/

October 29 – Tampa, Florida – 2 killed, 15 wounded
Black male/mixed-race – Tyrell Stephen Phillips
https://www.pinkvilla.com/trending/...and-charged-with-second-degree-murder-1255221

October 29 – Atlanta, Georgia – 4 wounded – Gas station parking lot

October 29 – Indianapolis, Indiana – 1 killed, 9 wounded – House party

October 29 – Dodge City, Kansas – 2 killed, 2 wounded
Latino male – Ricardo J. Cadena-Garcia
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...-shooting-dodge-city-man-arrested/ar-AA1j2MsK

October 29 – Wilson, North Carolina – 4 wounded
Latino male –Braulio Fuentes-Martinez
https://www.wect.com/2023/11/01/high-school-student-wanted-shooting-four-people-caught/

 

[Hercules56]

The greatly expanded and watered-down definition of "mass-shooting" makes the phenomenon, falsely, appear to be a mostly black & brown criminal problem.


Great going guys.

 

[Steve]

The greatly expanded and watered-down definition of "mass-shooting" makes the phenomenon, falsely, appear to be a mostly black & brown criminal problem.


Great going guys.

If you want to discuss only mass killings then use that term. A shooting does not automatically result in killing.

Regardless of the term you use far too many people are shot, by people of all backgrounds, in the USA.

 

[Thermal]

I have a great idea!!! Let's all just follow the original definition of "mass-shooting", before political agendas and racist ideologies screwed everything up.

I have a better idea! Abso- ******* -lutely NOT.

There is no "original" definition. Some used one, others used others. Fluent speakers of the English language realized that you can be SHOT without being KILLED, and your wounded body SHOULD STILL COUNT AS BEING THE VICTIM OF A MASS SHOOTER.

Using your definition, a white supremacist decked out in body armor who posts a manifesto, then goes out and kills three and wounds 20 WOULD NOT COUNT AS A MASS SHOOTER. THAT'S WHY THE DEFINITION SUCKS.
In fact, the definition doesn't merely suck: it's downright STUPID. And it's insulting to the forum to suggest we should all dumb down to using such a stupid definition.

Three killed and twenty wounded "isn't a mass shooting". Come on, man.

 

[Darat]

I'll take that as a no, then. Since I knew you would have no interest in proving your own delusions wrong, I took it upon myself to start compiling the known shooters for the 4 days after the Maine shooting.

Anyone else want to join in? Several on this board have accused me of ignoring certain types of shooters to skew the numbers, here's your chance to back up those claims.

18 mass shootings.
2 Latino males.
7 black males.




October 26 – Clinton, North Carolina – 5 killed – Drug-related

October 27 – Mansfield, Ohio – 2 killed, 4 wounded – House party

October 27 – Little Rock, Arkansas – 1 killed, 4 wounded – Gas station parking lot

October 28 – Chicago, Illinois – 4 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Texarkana, Texas – 3 killed, 3 wounded
2 black males – Breoskii Warren & Devon Hayden
https://txktoday.com/crime/two-arrested-in-shooting-that-left-three-dead/

October 28 – Chula Vista, California – 4 wounded
Black male –
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...arge/509-c6ca7eb2-ae7f-454a-a8f4-014095f3f545

October 28 – Decatur, Georgia – 4 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Cumberland, Maryland – 1 killed, 3 wounded – Outside of club

October 28 – Las Cruces, New Mexico – 7 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Lake Charles, Louisiana – 6 wounded
Black male – Artavien Green
https://www.kalb.com/2023/10/30/suspect-apprehended-bruce-drive-shooting/

October 29 – Azusa, California – 4 wounded – House party

October 29 – Chicago, Illinois – 15 wounded
Black male – William A Groves
https://cwbchicago.com/2023/10/chic...hooting-wiliam-groves-charged-background.html

October 29 – Wiggins, Mississippi – 1 killed, 3 wounded
Black male – Montrell Malik Quinn II
https://www.wdam.com/2023/11/02/sus...n-deadly-weekend-shooting-195-fruitland-park/

October 29 – Tampa, Florida – 2 killed, 15 wounded
Black male/mixed-race – Tyrell Stephen Phillips
https://www.pinkvilla.com/trending/...and-charged-with-second-degree-murder-1255221

October 29 – Atlanta, Georgia – 4 wounded – Gas station parking lot

October 29 – Indianapolis, Indiana – 1 killed, 9 wounded – House party

October 29 – Dodge City, Kansas – 2 killed, 2 wounded
Latino male – Ricardo J. Cadena-Garcia
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...-shooting-dodge-city-man-arrested/ar-AA1j2MsK

October 29 – Wilson, North Carolina – 4 wounded
Latino male –Braulio Fuentes-Martinez
https://www.wect.com/2023/11/01/high-school-student-wanted-shooting-four-people-caught/

Not sure what you are trying to convince any body of? I can assure you that we all know the results of the insanity of the USA gun control policies over the decades and the insanity of the USA murder rate, especially with firearms.

 

[Hercules56]

I have a better idea! Abso- ******* -lutely NOT.

There is no "original" definition. Some used one, others used others. Fluent speakers of the English language realized that you can be SHOT without being KILLED, and your wounded body SHOULD STILL COUNT AS BEING THE VICTIM OF A MASS SHOOTER.

Using your definition, a white supremacist decked out in body armor who posts a manifesto, then goes out and kills three and wounds 20 WOULD NOT COUNT AS A MASS SHOOTER. THAT'S WHY THE DEFINITION SUCKS.
In fact, the definition doesn't merely suck: it's downright STUPID. And it's insulting to the forum to suggest we should all dumb down to using such a stupid definition.

Three killed and twenty wounded "isn't a mass shooting". Come on, man.

If you want to get all technical and literal, a mass-shooting is any time someone fires a lot of rounds from a gun. No need for anyone to be hit.

 

[Thermal]

If you want to get all technical and literal, a mass-shooting is any time someone fires a lot of rounds from a gun. No need for anyone to be hit.

Not to someone with human intelligence. Target shooting at a range is not a mass shooting event that the DOJ needs to track.

Yet AGAIN, just not being stupid handles the problem: a "shooting" means shooting at a human being. Shooting at a lot of them is a "mass shooting". Killing more than 3 or 4 (or however many blows your dress up) is a "mass killing/murder", and is also OBVIOUSLY a "mass shooting".

There's no reason at all for us to act recreationally stupid and adopt a definition where a manifesto-posting body-armored theater shooter who kills 3 and wounds 20 would not be considered a "mass shooter".

 

[Hercules56]

Not to someone with human intelligence. Target shooting at a range is not a mass shooting event that the DOJ needs to track.

Yet AGAIN, just not being stupid handles the problem: a "shooting" means shooting at a human being. Shooting at a lot of them is a "mass shooting". Killing more than 3 or 4 (or however many blows your dress up) is a "mass killing/murder", and is also OBVIOUSLY a "mass shooting".

There's no reason at all for us to act recreationally stupid and adopt a definition where a manifesto-posting body-armored theater shooter who kills 3 and wounds 20 would not be considered a "mass shooter".

I tend to agree. 50 people being shot and only three dying, is definitely a mass shooting.

However I think it's completely ignorant and absurd to include regular criminal events like gang shootings and robberies. Unless of course you're trying to make it look like this is mostly a black and brown people problem.

 

[Bogative]

You're totally delusional, aren't you. Lad is whiter than I am.

Uh, no. He is mixed race and identifies as black.
The idiot fancies himself a rapper and has posted videos of himself rapping while standing around with his black homies n-bombing this, n-bombing that, n-bomb n-bomb n-bomb and dissin' on crackas here and crackas there and crackas everywhere.

You can view a little of his "talent" in the link I provided. He's rapping in front of a mirror while smoking a blunt and flashing his Glock with a beam.

Here's a little taste:

"Seen pure evil turn a boy into a man.
This the life that I live with this glock in my hand.
I'll never let them take me I'll forever be on 10, that some real ****.
Never tell a n-bomb what the **** you got to deal with
Cause when it's time to slide n-bombs hide on some week ****
They trying to play both sides they keep playing defense
caught him in the middle had to leave his ass leakin'
n-bombs tweakin they like talking on me for no mother *********** reason
Probably why they broke his ???? and was too busy grieving.
From the modern-day homies dying from this killa season
I don't care what the **** they be on I bet they know what we be on.
Spin the block like all night long" … and some more unintelligible ghetto gibberish.

 

[Thermal]

I tend to agree. 50 people being shot and only three dying, is definitely a mass shooting.

Then the definition you have been lobbying so adamantly for is OUT, full stop. It is inadequate and misleading. Glad we got that established.

However I think it's completely ignorant and absurd to include regular criminal events like gang shootings and robberies. Unless of course you're trying to make it look like this is mostly a black and brown people problem.

OK, cool. Progress! I could agree that a bank robbery would not be an intended mass shooting, so much as an out of control "accidental" event.

"Gang" shootings, even according to DOJ, are fairly rare. But even then, if gang members open fire in a public place and hit many others that were not intended targets, that doesn't make the victims any less shot up. Innocents indiscriminately shot are innocents indescriminately shot.

Yet we still have the much more common type of shooting: an argument at a party or bar or wherever that erupts into gunfire, hurting/killing many. While it wasn't planned in advance, it's still a mass of innocent people shot. Their bodies count too.

Dude, I totally get your concern with the "cold blooded" type of mass shooter, as opposed to the "hot-blooded" reckless/unexpected type. The ticking time bomb next door who plans a random mass killing is absolutely a terrifying thought that we need to do whatever we can to prevent. But they are not the only type of mass shooter. A sudden shooting at a birthday party resulting in three children killed should count as much as Dylan Roof planning his executions, in terms of prevention. We need to prevent ALL TYPES of mass shootings, not just the creepy ones, so we need to factor ALL OF THEM into the stats.

 

[Bogative]

However I think it's completely ignorant and absurd to include regular criminal events like gang shootings and robberies. Unless of course you're trying to make it look like this is mostly a black and brown people problem.

I think it's completely ignorant and absurd to exclude regular criminal events like gang shootings, robberies, drive-bys, hookah lounge shootings, bar/club, house/block/park party shootings, parking lot shootings etc., you know, the overwhelming majority of mass shootings. Unless of course you're trying to make it look like this is mostly a white people problem.

 

[Dr.Sid]

Easy, take the guns off them.

"Easy"