Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[lobosrul5]

Except most school systems use what they call "resource officers," actual members of the local police dept. Sometimes they are older guys approaching retirement, sometimes they are young guys who are thought to relate well to kids, but they are actual police officers with the full resources of the local dept. behind them. Uvalde sounds like an exception.

Its a totally separate department here. They report to the school board rather than city council.

 

[Thermal]

Also there's the little* fact that several of the officers did rush in... to save their children. They found plenty of bravery when their own child's life was at stake.

*thats sarcasm

At first, I was inclined to kind of excuse the cops if they did this. A parent will thoughtlessly throw down their lives to protect their children at all costs and with no other objective. I get that.

But now im hoping this turns out to be untrue, and is fog of war misreporting. Because if so, it carves in stone that the cops had no issues whatsoever breaching orders and charging in with no plan other than to save who they decided was worth it to them personally. That alone warrants prison time for any involved in such selective courage.

 

[Meadmaker]

At first, I was inclined to kind of excuse the cops if they did this. A parent will thoughtlessly throw down their lives to protect their children at all costs and with no other objective. I get that.

But now im hoping this turns out to be untrue, and is fog of war misreporting. Because if so, it carves in stone that the cops had no issues whatsoever breaching orders and charging in with no plan other than to save who they decided was worth it to them personally.

That's why I'm inclined not to believe it at this point. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but I'm not inclined to believe it.

That alone warrants prison time for any involved in such selective courage.

Whether the stories are true or not, that's a bit harsh.

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't understand this post at all.

That's not surprising as you seem to have a great deal of difficulty understanding posts.

Again: It's not about you or your non existing "points". All you did was repeat a silly little mantra named "You are all police haters!!!!". Let. it. go.

Clearly you have a reading comprehension problem or are trying desperately to deflect from the fact that you posted this:

Stacyhs (and Cruz): It was the door's fault!!!!!

which had NOTHING to do with any "silly little mantra named " 'You are all police haters!!!!' " I asked earlier whether you were going to double down or man up. I see you made your choice for the former.

 

[EaglePuncher]

That's not surprising as you seem to have a great deal of difficulty understanding posts.




Clearly you have a reading comprehension problem or are trying desperately to deflect from the fact that you posted this:



which had NOTHING to do with any "silly little mantra named " 'You are all police haters!!!!' " I asked earlier whether you were going to double down or man up. I see you made your choice for the former.

I see you are still mad about being called out for blaming the door. Let. it. go. It's not about you means: No one cares about your opinion on this. Let. it. go.

 

[smartcooky]

This started out as my making a simple statement of fact in response to Alfaniner's posted quote from the PD that the shooter gained entrance through the back door:

The responses? Immediate nasty reactions comparing me to Cruz, accusing me of blaming the teachers, and victim blaming. No matter that Cruz called for a single point of entrance which I did not say and disagree with. No matter that I quoted and cited the Fire Association's clear recommendation for outside doors to remain closed and locked and only openable from the inside per school safety. Nope, I get the following idiotic responses:

No, it's not a distraction at all. It's quite possible that the shooter could have found another way in, but that IS how he got in. Once he gained entrance he was able to barricade himself inside the safety of the classroom where he killed those children and teachers. As I stated in another post, during the time he may have spent trying to find another access point, he would have been exposed to police gunfire.

It MUST be reinforced to schools to ALWAYS have those door closed and locked no matter how inconvenient they are at times.

100% correct!

And its not just potential shooters that need keeping out!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

We probably ought to wait until we know more. In short time we'll learn many of the things the cops said to minimize their outrageous cowardice will turn out to be complete lies, and the truth will be even more damning of their callous indifference.

 

[Armitage72]

Showing a frankly surprising level of awareness, the manufacturer of the rifles used in the shooting has decided not to attend the NRA convention.

"Daniel Defense is not attending the National Rifle Association ("NRA") meeting due to the horrifying tragedy in Uvalde, Texas where one of our products was criminally misused," the company told AFP.

"We believe this week is not the appropriate time to be promoting our products in Texas at the NRA meeting," it said.

But they bring out the old standard, and get bitten in the butt by previous publicity.

"Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families and community devastated by this evil act," it said.

A week before the shooting, the company tweeted an image of a young boy sitting on the floor with an assault rifle across his legs, as an adult points a finger toward the weapon.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it," text accompanying the picture said.

 

[Thermal]

...Whether the stories are true or not, that's a bit harsh.

Not fractionally as harsh as picking out your own children to save and leaving the others to die. I'm having trouble seeing a reason why these courageous cowboy cops wouldn't have at least escorted the entire class out. And since it was so effortless, going back in to the next class.

 

[dudalb]

Being ex US Army, I think the cops pretty much deserted in the face of enemy action, and that is one of the most contemtible things a soldier can do. The penalaties for it are among the most severe in the Uniform Code Of Military Justice..the laws you live by in the US military.
Thjey are lucky that the worst that can happen to them is they will be fired.
And if they were not trained for a dangerous situation, then it is one incredibly incompenent police department.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

100% correct!

And its not just potential shooters that need keeping out!

I pity the society where that is needed.
I truly do.

I've never heard of that need on the schools here in the Netherlands, not the one I teach at now nor any of those I've ever been to in the past decades.
A school should not be a fortress or a prison.

 

[Stacyhs]

We probably ought to wait until we know more. In short time we'll learn many of the things the cops said to minimize their outrageous cowardice will turn out to be complete lies, and the truth will be even more damning of their callous indifference.

Your sarcasm aside, it's generally seen as a good thing to have informed opinions based on verified information. That's why they have these things called 'investigations'. Sometimes they support earlier opinions and sometimes they don't, but almost every chaotic situation has early reports that turn out to be incorrect.

 

[William Parcher]

It's gonna be tricky to breach a locked door if he's shooting through it. You'd want a shield.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Also there's the little* fact that several of the officers did rush in... to save their children. They found plenty of bravery when their own child's life was at stake.

*thats sarcasm

....
A reporter today is saying an off-duty Border Patrol officer getting a haircut heard about the first 911 calls, borrowed a shotgun from his barber and entered the school with a couple other officers to get all the kids out of the classroom where his own kid was.

Reports that when the BP Swat team arrived, the Uvalde police kept them from taking action.

Do we have confirmation these stories are true?

... yet. Give them time.

Only in TX and FL.

Texas Gov. Abbott says he's "livid" and was "misled," throws people under the bus. I guess the buck doesn't stop here.

Is anyone surprised?

We probably ought to wait until we know more. In short time we'll learn many of the things the cops said to minimize their outrageous cowardice will turn out to be complete lies, and the truth will be even more damning of their callous indifference.

In addition to the incident commander admitting he ****** up:

The 12 times Texas police have changed their story of what happened during the school shooting that left 19 children dead

Texas officials have changed their statements about the mass shooting at Robb Elementary on Thursday at least 12 times.

Police initially claimed a school cop confronted the shooter, but walked that back days later.

Now authorities say 19 police were ready to confront the suspect but were called off by a commander on scene.

And on and on it goes.

 

[shemp]

Failed comparison.

Bull dookie.

 

[Andy_Ross]

It's gonna be tricky to breach a locked door if he's shooting through it. You'd want a shield.

If he's shooting through a door he isn't shooting kids.
there are two doors into the room, it connected to another room with it's own way in.
He can only shoot at one of them at any time and there are windows.
It just needed some determination on the part of the police.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Your sarcasm aside, it's generally seen as a good thing to have informed opinions based on verified information. That's why they have these things called 'investigations'. Sometimes they support earlier opinions and sometimes they don't, but almost every chaotic situation has early reports that turn out to be incorrect.

But in this case changing reports was on the extreme side. And usually it's the news media getting it wrong. Some of this came from recorded interviews of the police themselves.

 

[lomiller]

True, but the point is if you don want to ever risk your life, then don't sign on to be a cop...or a firefighter for that matter. That you might have to risk your life in perfromance of your duties is what you signed on for.
I agree with waiting for the facts to emerge, but the fact have emerged and there is no way round this was a *************** of major proportions.
I owuld not blame people in Valverde for buying a gun at this point, since they can't rely on their police to protect them....and people will take whatever steps they think necessary to protect themselves. It's called "Survival Instict" and it's hard wired into every human being.
In fact, a great deal of training in any high risk job is to overcome that and perfrom your duties.

Cowardice is probably the biggest single issue with US police. They also kill a lot of people because they are trained not take chances and initiate violence at the slightest provocation, or even when there is no provocation at all. Far fewer innocent people would be killed if police were brave and patient enough to simply talk to people instead of using their guns out of fear.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If he's shooting through a door he isn't shooting kids.
there are two doors into the room, it connected to another room with it's own way in.
He can only shoot at one of them at any time and there are windows.
It just needed some determination on the part of the police.

I haven't heard much about windows but I'm with you, they could have stood beside the door as they cracked it open. Or they could go in both doors at once. And why did they not immediately assess the situation through the windows?

 

[dudalb]

Cowardice is probably the biggest single issue with US police. They also kill a lot of people because they are trained not take chances and initiate violence at the slightest provocation, or even when there is no provocation at all. Far fewer innocent people would be killed if police were brave and patient enough to simply talk to people instead of using their guns out of fear.

That is a pretty broad brush you are using....