To Believe or Not to Believe - Is that the question?

As I have said, you are within the evidence.

Fact: Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global.
Fact: The human species is not one individual. But every individual.
Fact: The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere.
Fact: You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death.
Fact: Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.
Fact:The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment. But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses.
Fact: The main event is the whole process.
Fact: Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.
Fact: None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.



There is no need to support these facts with evidence. The evidence is in the fact.

Why do you think these facts are fiction?
Everything you have asserted here is a belief, including the rather bizarre notion that a fact needs no evidence but itself. It may be a true belief (though I rather doubt it), but it is a belief. Simply declaring that what you believe is not belief does not make it something else. You have made an interpretive assertion about what the world is and how it operates. Most people here do not BELIEVE it is true. Unless you have the chutzpah to suggest that everyone but you is devoid of intelligence, insight or basic sensory apparatus, it is possible only to conclude that you BELIEVE something that others do not. You can call it knowledge, and maybe your BELIEF corresponds with something so real that it can be known, but it is not known by others, and the means by which it can be known is not adequately communicated by you, so, in short, it is a BELIEF. This is so even if the belief is true. It is a belief even if it is right, and it is a belief now even if someday its truth becomes manifest.

You accuse others of semantic games, but your use of terms is eccentric.
 
please don't insult my symbiotic bacteria, not nearly infesting me :D
but yes, "purpose" is a funny word when used for local decreases in entropy of an open system; natural language is definetely ambiguous

Are there any purposes behind the system?
 
Are there any purposes behind the system?
I'm keen to adhere to Hypothetischen Realismus à la Konrad Lorenz. I'll stick with Leumas' "If you are trying to EXTEND anthropomorphic "purpose" to beyond the individual human then you are engaging in hyperactive attribution." in this case.
 
NONE WHATSOEVER!

I REPEAT, IS THAT A BELIEF?


Why did you need to repeat? Had I not already answered you? Are you in the habit of asking a question and repeating it emphatically despite having been already answered?

I suggest you start reading other people's posts carefully.... you might see more answers to your questions which might make you pause for thought before you ask the same questions again and again without ever bothering to read the answers other people give you.

Is that a belief?


Yes it is belief based upon Practical Realism... but your wishful thinking is an illogical fallacy.

If you'd care to demonstrate otherwise then please go ahead.... but so far as we can see, the reality of the matter is that human existence in the overall universal space-time has as much purpose to it as the existence of a cockroach.


If it's not a belief, how did you know it?


I suggest you CAREFULLY read the following posts (and this one too of course):

How can you say there are not any purposes behind reality?


Because sane, intelligent, logical, non-wishful thinking and rational observation of and enquiry into REALITY has not yielded any evidence whatsoever for it so far after so long.

So I repeat

Yes it is belief based upon Practical Realism... but your wishful thinking is an illogical fallacy.

If you'd care to demonstrate otherwise then please go ahead.... but so far as we can see, the reality of the matter is that human existence in the overall universal space-time has as much purpose to it as the existence of a cockroach.​
 
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What has been rejected? Either it is apparently ignored or not understood.
Only to the monumentally hubristic. It is possible to disagree with an idea. If you are convinced that it is an idea that cannot possibly be disagreed with if understood, then the fault is wholly yours for failing to impart that understanding.
 
Why did you need to repeat? Had I not already answered you? Are you in the habit of asking a question and repeating it emphatically despite having been already answered?
I apologise for not reading carefully your entire post. It does feel a bit like being hit around the head repeatedly with a punch bag. Are you actually shouting, or is it just the way you type?
I suggest you start reading other people's posts carefully.... you might see more answers to your questions which might make you pause for thought before you ask the same questions again and again without ever bothering to read the answers other people give you.
It would take an hour or more to read everything you just asked me to read.

Perhaps if you could keep your responses brief and to the point a little more, I would be able to cope.

All you needed to say was that it is a belief based on practical realism.

There, just one sentence. You should know by now that I will pick up your meaning quickly, without the need for lengthy explanation.






I suggest you CAREFULLY read the following posts (and this one too of course):
It is not necessary to read all that material, as I already know what you have to say and its summed up well by your use of "practical realism".

Two points really, I would appreciate brevity in your response.

1, both practicality and realism have little to do with the circumstances of existence, as they (the circumstances) are entirely beyond our current perception. Your practical realism is little more than navel gazing in this respect.

2, You are using the word belief in the ambiguous way hi-lighted by Navigator. Ie, in the sense, I must believe that the words I am writing actually mean something, or how would I possibly know for certain that they do, or that I know what it is they mean. This usage of the word belief tends to insert the word into virtually every sentence and thought and is entirely ridiculous.

What use is belief of any kind when engaging in practical realism, it is practical after all, and belief is not?

If you take points 1 and 2, it looks as though you are navel gazing while tied up in knots in the umbilical cord(of belief) and desperately relying on belief to extricate yourself.




Because sane, intelligent, logical, non-wishful thinking and rational observation of and enquiry into REALITY has not yielded any evidence whatsoever for it so far after so long.

So I repeat

Yes it is belief based upon Practical Realism... but your wishful thinking is an illogical fallacy.

If you'd care to demonstrate otherwise then please go ahead.... but so far as we can see, the reality of the matter is that human existence in the overall universal space-time has as much purpose to it as the existence of a cockroach.​
There's that practical realism again. Can't you see yet that it is entirely irrelevant to the question?

The only comment you have made which does actually give an answer to the question (is there a purpose behind the existence we find ourselves in?). Is your claim that the notion of purpose is a figment of the human mind and it is some kind of fallacy, or stupidity to apply it to anything external to the mind.

Please clarify?(with brevity).
 
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Only to the monumentally hubristic. It is possible to disagree with an idea. If you are convinced that it is an idea that cannot possibly be disagreed with if understood, then the fault is wholly yours for failing to impart that understanding.
I was not saying the idea cannot be disagreed with if understood. Rather that it should at least be understood before it can be disagreed with.
Anyway it is no skin off my nose if no one is prepared to discuss the issue, there are plenty of other things to discuss.

I will ask you and see what you have to say about it.

Is there a purpose behind the existence we find ourselves in?
 
I'm keen to adhere to Hypothetischen Realismus à la Konrad Lorenz. I'll stick with Leumas' "If you are trying to EXTEND anthropomorphic "purpose" to beyond the individual human then you are engaging in hyperactive attribution." in this case.
So only humans have purposes?
 
I apologise for not reading carefully your entire post. It does feel a bit like being hit around the head repeatedly with a punch bag. Are you actually shouting, or is it just the way you type?

It would take an hour or more to read everything you just asked me to read.

Perhaps if you could keep your responses brief and to the point a little more, I would be able to cope.

All you needed to say was that it is a belief based on practical realism.

There, just one sentence. You should know by now that I will pick up your meaning quickly, without the need for lengthy explanation.


I see... you want everything in 140 words or less....well... here is the Twit version of my reply.....


Two points really, I would appreciate brevity in your response.

1, both practicality and realism have little to do with the circumstances of existence, as they (the circumstances) are entirely beyond our current perception. Your practical realism is little more than navel gazing in this respect.


If you take points 1 and 2, it looks as though you are navel gazing while tied up in knots in the umbilical cord(of belief) and desperately relying on belief to extricate yourself.


At least while I am "naval gazing" my head is out of my darker crevices and with my peripheral vision I can still see reality…. and thus I am still able to apply practical realism.

If only wishful thinkers for woo could at least also start naval gazing too and get their heads out from inside areas that have a different kind of reality altogether.


Please clarify?(with brevity).


Are 65 words within your attention span? Are you able to cope with that?
 
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Is there a purpose behind the existence we find ourselves in?


None whatsoever!

So only humans have purposes?

I apologise for not reading carefully your entire post....

Perhaps if you could keep your responses brief and to the point a little more, I would be able to cope.


If only you had the ability to cope with reading a post carefully you might have noticed this

....
Every living creature that consumes energy and reproduces has a "purpose" .... which is to consume energy and reproduce.

Nonliving things might also "have" a "purpose" akin to the living things... which is to exist.

That is all there is to it.
....


and this

...but yes, "purpose" is a funny word when used for local decreases in entropy of an open system; natural language is definetely ambiguous
 
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None whatsoever!
How do you know this? I know what you said about practical realism, unfortunately that does not inform you about any purposes behind the system.



If only you had the ability to cope with reading a post carefully you might have noticed this
Yes I read that and agreed about living things. The other bit about non living things is a curious turn of phrase.

How do you know there are not any purposes (apart from simply existing) in which physical matter is involved, other than the purposes of living things?



Yes, that addresses local physical conditions, so what? Does that inform us about any purposes in which anything in our world is involved?(other than those of living things).
 
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How do you know this? I know what you said about practical realism, unfortunately that does not inform you about any purposes behind the system.

Yes I read that and agreed about living things. The other bit about non living things is a curious turn of phrase.

How do you know there are not any purposes (apart from simply existing) in which physical matter is involved, other than the purposes of living things?

Yes, that addresses local physical conditions, so what? Does that inform us about any purposes in which anything in our world is involved?(other than those of living things).

I apologise for not reading carefully your entire post. It does feel a bit like being hit around the head repeatedly with a punch bag. Are you actually shouting, or is it just the way you type?

It would take an hour or more to read everything you just asked me to read.

Perhaps if you could keep your responses brief and to the point a little more, I would be able to cope.

All you needed to say was that it is a belief based on practical realism.

There, just one sentence. You should know by now that I will pick up your meaning quickly, without the need for lengthy explanation.


If only you were able to cope with reading stuff that requires more than 140 words and a few minutes of concentration I would have told you to go buy some SIMPLIFIED series books on biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, anthropology, sociology and history, also perhaps psychology, and study some real world practical stuff. I think you would find some good answers eventually for how Wishful Thinking for WOO is not really a good way to search for a purpose.

But I really think that maybe you should be searching for purpose in reality rather than WOO!
 
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Surely any intelligent system can create purposes.

Also purposes may well be a kind of substrate(material) in another realm. An idealist realm for example.

Your assertion that the principle of purpose as understood by the human mind is not applicable to the external world is derisive.


What exactly is an "idealist realm" is that the same as the "principle of purpose".... or is it some kind of really good kingdom like say Camelot?

Do you have evidence for this "other realm" of Camelot other than Wishful Thinking Woo... will Merlin apparate into this non-idealist realm and help us navigate to this "idealist realm" and teach us the rudiments of the "principle of purpose"?
 
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...Your assertion that the principle of purpose as understood by the human mind is not applicable to the external world is derisive.
Never heard of (but could be a translation problem). Would you mind articulating what this "principle of purpose" is supposed to be?

edited: Leumas preceded me
 
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I was not saying the idea cannot be disagreed with if understood. Rather that it should at least be understood before it can be disagreed with.
Anyway it is no skin off my nose if no one is prepared to discuss the issue, there are plenty of other things to discuss.

I will ask you and see what you have to say about it.

Is there a purpose behind the existence we find ourselves in?
Simple answer, no.
 

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